House Speaker Ongoing Melodrama

[HarleyDog]

(10-12-2023, 10:17 PM)pally Wrote: And the Scalise backers are no way in hell voting for Jim Jordan so they are back to square 1. 

Curious why you would say this. 

[Millhouse]

(10-13-2023, 07:34 AM)Goalpost Wrote: Jordan is working the phones trying to build support for himself.

[*Nately120*]

(10-13-2023, 10:39 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: Curious why you would say this. 

They re possibly concerned that giving the fringe members of their group what they want because they've been so disruptive is going to cause more problems down the road. 

Every time a republican sees a kid throwing a fit in the candy aisle they make it clear that you can't give in, but for some reason when Matt Gaetz does the same thing the blinders go up. 

[*pally*]

(10-13-2023, 10:39 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: Curious why you would say this. 

because many of them said so..at least enough to prevent him from getting enough votes

Congressman Austin Scott of Georgia has thrown his hat in the ring as the anti-Jordan candidate. He is a conservative in his 7th term but not part of the Freedom Caucus. He also voted to certify the 2020 election so he's not an election denier but will the gang of 8 vote for him...who knows

[*Nately120*]

What happened to making Trump the speaker? Is the GOP beholden to bad faith actors who only care about spouting BS on social media or something?

[Dill]

(10-13-2023, 03:02 PM)Nately120 Wrote: What happened to making Trump the speaker?  Is the GOP beholden to bad faith actors who only care about spouting BS on social media or something?

Maybe this could entice Trump to give it a serous shot.

If he can't, then I want JORDAN in there. Now!

[*pally*]

Jim Jordan won today's caucus vote 124-81 over Austin Scott....still far short of the 217 he needs to win the Speakership. Unless something changes there are at least 50 hard no's to his candidacy

[GMDino]

No aid do Israel or Ukraine.
No farm bill.
Nothing done and no leader vote at all.

The republicans cannot lead.

[Millhouse]

(10-13-2023, 06:03 PM)pally Wrote: Jim Jordan won today's caucus vote 124-81 over Austin Scott....still far short of the 217 he needs to win the Speakership.  Unless something changes there are at least 50 hard no's to his candidacy

That's good to hear. A Jan. 6th Trumper has no business being the Speaker.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-14-2023, 12:20 PM)GMDino Wrote: No aid do Israel or Ukraine.
No farm bill.
Nothing done and no leader vote at all.

The republicans cannot lead.

Both sides are so interested in pissing on each other and themselves that nobody is doing their job anymore. I sure wish people would take note and vote some real changes in the next election, but I fear ultimately their focus will just be brought back to "Us vs Them" rather than "US" and it'll be another vote straight down the ballot of the usual suspects because they've got the support of the party you vote for.

[*pally*]

(10-14-2023, 05:33 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote:


Both sides are so interested in pissing on each other and themselves that nobody is doing their job anymore. I sure wish people would take note and vote some real changes in the next election, but I fear ultimately their focus will just be brought back to "Us vs Them" rather than "US" and it'll be another vote straight down the ballot of the usual suspects because they've got the support of the party you vote for.

It is not the job of the minority party to choose the leader of the majority party or save his ass when his caucus rebels.  McCarthy and the Republicans set the rules that allowed for his removal. Why didn't they have a plan for the next step?  Just like they had 11 years to come up with a healthcare plan to allow for the "repeal and replacement" of the ACA.  NADA...they had nothing though they campaigned on getting rid of it for a decade.

The Republicans have either formally or behind the scenes chased out every speaker they've had in the last 40 years...
Gingrich-forced out due to corruption
Hastert-longest serving Republican Speaker in history.  He retired but turns out he was a serial child molester so maybe that's why Republicans don't talk about him
Boehner-chased out by the obstructionism of the Freedom Caucus led by Jim Jordan
Ryan-chased out by the obstructionism of the Freedom Caucus
McCarthy- lied to everyone including the extremist right-wing members who revolted and led to his removal


As long as the extreme political gerrymandering is allowed to continue, there is no incentive for either side to run more moderate candidates.  The primary system rewards extremists who often appeal to the party faithful who come out and vote in primaries.  Fair districts force Parties to run candidates to appeal  to the independents who are generally more moderate.

It would be nice if we had Congressmen and Senators who were as interested in DOING their jobs as they are in KEEPING them

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-14-2023, 06:10 PM)pally Wrote: It is not the job of the minority party to choose the leader of the majority party or save his ass when his caucus rebels.  McCarthy and the Republicans set the rules that allowed for his removal. Why didn't they have a plan for the next step?  Just like they had 11 years to come up with a healthcare plan to allow for the "repeal and replacement" of the ACA.  NADA...they had nothing though they campaigned on getting rid of it for a decade.

The Republicans have either formally or behind the scenes chased out every speaker they've had in the last 40 years...
Gingrich-forced out due to corruption
Hastert-longest serving Republican Speaker in history.  He retired but turns out he was a serial child molester so maybe that's why Republicans don't talk about him
Boehner-chased out by the obstructionism of the Freedom Caucus led by Jim Jordan
Ryan-chased out by the obstructionism of the Freedom Caucus
McCarthy- lied to everyone including the extremist right-wing members who revolted and led to his removal


As long as the extreme political gerrymandering is allowed to continue, there is no incentive for either side to run more moderate candidates.  The primary system rewards extremists who often appeal to the party faithful who come out and vote in primaries.  Fair districts force Parties to run candidates to appeal  to the independents who are generally more moderate.

It would be nice if we had Congressmen and Senators who were as interested in DOING their jobs as they are in KEEPING them

It's not the minority party's job to choose, but if they are going to intentionally make that job as hard as possible by amplifying the voice of far right wingers to dismantle, the high horse of complaining about no funding for emergencies around the world is basically lying on the ground which makes it pretty hard to mount.

Wasn't it just a couple weeks ago all the talk was about how we need compromise? 

Now a lack of that has set up a situation where Jim Jordan might become Speaker of the House. Do you see that as somehow better? Because I consider that much worse.

[*pally*]

(10-14-2023, 06:29 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: It's not the minority party's job to choose, but if they are going to intentionally make that job as hard as possible by amplifying the voice of far right wingers to dismantle, the high horse of complaining about no funding for emergencies around the world is basically lying on the ground which makes it pretty hard to mount.

Wasn't it just a couple weeks ago all the talk was about how we need compromise? 

Now a lack of that has set up a situation where Jim Jordan might become Speaker of the House. Do you see that as somehow better? Because I consider that much worse.

McCarthy set the stage when he gave those people the ability to remove him.  Then they removed him with no consensus in place to replace him. Jim Jordan isn't getting elected unless something dramatically changes 

McCarthy lied to the Democrats when he failed to adhere to the budget deal he agreed to with the debt ceiling deal. 

The Dems will help eventually...when the Republicans stop putting forth names who 1) aren't from the extreme right 2) aren't election deniers

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(10-14-2023, 06:29 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: It's not the minority party's job to choose, but if they are going to intentionally make that job as hard as possible by amplifying the voice of far right wingers to dismantle, the high horse of complaining about no funding for emergencies around the world is basically lying on the ground which makes it pretty hard to mount.

Wasn't it just a couple weeks ago all the talk was about how we need compromise? 

Now a lack of that has set up a situation where Jim Jordan might become Speaker of the House. Do you see that as somehow better? Because I consider that much worse.

Thank you.  This has been mentioned before, but Dems are playing politics by enabling a handful of GOP extremists as they believe this will help them in the '24 elections.  Every single Dem who voted with the Gaetz group is just as guilty as Gaetz for the current situation.  They're playing politics with our country and calling them out for it is absolutely fair.

(10-14-2023, 06:47 PM)pally Wrote: McCarthy set the stage when he gave those people the ability to remove him.  

How so, did McCarthy misplace his orbital mind control lasers?

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-14-2023, 06:47 PM)pally Wrote: McCarthy set the stage when he gave those people the ability to remove him.  Then they removed him with no consensus in place to replace him. Jim Jordan isn't getting elected unless something dramatically changes 

McCarthy lied to the Democrats when he failed to adhere to the budget deal he agreed to with the debt ceiling deal. 

The Dems will help eventually...when the Republicans stop putting forth names who 1) aren't from the extreme right 2) aren't election deniers

"Those people" didn't have the ability to remove him because there were just 8 of them. 208/208 Democrats voted with "those people" to give them that ability because they apparently would either prefer Jim Jordan or a non-functional government during a worldwide time of emergency than compromise.

Literally took just 4 of the 208 to not choose chaos and providing an opening for Jim Jordan to get more power, and "those people" would have been silenced.

ANNNDDD that is precisely my point. Eventually, because apparently it wasn't/isn't a priority. Nor is it a priority to keep Jim Jordan from being Speaker of the House. So GMD pretending that he cares so much about aid to Israel or Ukraine or a farm bill while Democrats are simultaneously fine with helping "eventually" is exactly why that high horse is completely dead. 

[*pally*]

(10-14-2023, 06:58 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Thank you.  This has been mentioned before, but Dems are playing politics by enabling a handful of GOP extremists as they believe this will help them in the '24 elections.  Every single Dem who voted with the Gaetz group is just as guilty as Gaetz for the current situation.  They're playing politics with our country and calling them out for it is absolutely fair.



How so, did McCarthy misplace his orbital mind control lasers?

In his agreement to get the Matt Gaetz wing of the caucus to vote present instead of no for his speakership, he agreed to allow a single person to put forth a motion to remove him.  In previous Speakerships, it required a majority of the caucus to force a removal vote. But. in his quest for power, he gave the extreme of his party the guillotine.  Then he wanted to the people he screwed over by lying to them to save him. They worked with McCarthy to get the debt ceiling raised, then McCarthy reneged on the deal he agreed to.  Why would any Democrat vote for more of the same?  Republicans don't want to work with Democrats but then want them to save them from themselves.  

Seriously, are there any adults in the Republican House caucus? No one can govern when the majority in the House can't function 

Why don't 5 Republicans vote for Hakeem Jeffries for Speaker?  It is a 2 way street

[*Nately120*]

(10-14-2023, 07:56 PM)pally Wrote: Why don't 5 Republicans vote for Hakeem Jeffries for Speaker?  It is a 2 way street

That'd be an easy way to end this chaos, but just a handful of moderate republicans to support a speaker that so many members of the house have been 100% behind the entire time.  Just 5 of them need to cross the aisle for this.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(10-14-2023, 07:56 PM)pally Wrote: In his agreement to get the Matt Gaetz wing of the caucus to vote present instead of no for his speakership, he agreed to allow a single person to put forth a motion to remove him.  In previous Speakerships, it required a majority of the caucus to force a removal vote. But. in his quest for power, he gave the extreme of his party the guillotine.  Then he wanted to the people he screwed over by lying to them to save him. They worked with McCarthy to get the debt ceiling raised, then McCarthy reneged on the deal he agreed to.  Why would any Democrat vote for more of the same?  Republicans don't want to work with Democrats but then want them to save them from themselves.  

Seriously, are there any adults in the Republican House caucus? No one can govern when the majority in the House can't function

If you vote for dysfunction you cannot subsequently get any credit for complaining about said dysfunction. 

Quote:Why don't 5 Republicans vote for Hakeem Jeffries for Speaker?  It is a 2 way street

Because outside the Democrat cult there is no interest in Jeffries. Also, Jeffries would not be able to preside over anything resembling a functional House.  So, your choices are simple, pick a GOP member you, and enough GOP members are comfortable with, or STFU about their being no speaker.  You ignore that the Dems are doing this on purpose to improve their chances in '24, while simultaneously bemoaning having no speaker.  Your borderline slavish devotion to the Dems allows you to find no fault with them.  You can't even bring yourself to denounce the Dem members who refuse to condemn Hamas.

[*Nately120*]

(10-14-2023, 10:21 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Because outside the Democrat cult there is no interest in Jeffries.

What do you mean by this, exactly?  I don't know much about Jefferies, but I'm pretty sure all 212 democrats would vote for him and I think he got all the D votes during the 15 or so rounds republicans took before they allowed McCarthy to assume the position.

I get it, the democrats can't just put their guy in power without R's sending them help, but I'm not sure why you are saying a guy with unanimous party support has cult appeal.  If not Jefferies, is there any democrat that is moderate enough that 5 republicans would prefer to vote for him/her over whatever their own party has planned?

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-14-2023, 10:21 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: If you vote for dysfunction you cannot subsequently get any credit for complaining about said dysfunction. 

Good way to phrase it.

Just own it if your goal and actions are to throw a cog in the machine to screw over the other side in an attempt to win in 2024. That's better than pretending that caring about getting things done is your primary goal when it's obviously not.

I wish both parties would get their heads out of their asses and cooperate to make our political system ever so slightly less of a shitshow than it currently is, but barring that at least they can be honest.