It's insanity! The war on Christianity......

[*bfine32*]

(10-16-2015, 01:10 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Indeed, it would be "less than a blink of an eye", which makes me wonder why he would even bother interfering knowing that in less than a "blink of an eye" man would be doing even more impressive things like exploring other planets let alone building skyscrapers.   

He has to rein us in every so often and get us pointed in the right direction. Also some would suggest that this happened before Salvation, so God doesn't have to do it anymore.

[GodHatesBengals]

(10-16-2015, 10:26 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: There is a place for questioning these things, for debate and intellectualism in the faith. But poor experiences turn people away so they will never find that out.

See, I've experienced that side of things, too, prior to deconverting. I didn't find it nearly as satisfying as you do. People who are into theology and apologetics and such managed to disappoint me even more, because their answers just don't hold muster. And as for people who embrace doubt... why bother, then? Warm fuzzy feelings and hoping to live forever, from what I can tell. Orgasms are a better means to the former; the latter is destructive.

[WhoDeyWho]

(10-16-2015, 01:24 PM)bfine32 Wrote: He has to rein us in every so often and get us pointed in the right direction. Also some would suggest that this happened before Salvation, so God doesn't have to do it anymore.

If indeed that is the reason, a good start would have been with Eve getting coaxed into eating the "forbidden fruit". 

That would have prevented the need for "Salvation" and could have spared "his only begotten son" Jesus the grief.   

[*bfine32*]

(10-16-2015, 02:07 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: If indeed that is the reason, a good start would have been with Eve getting coaxed into eating the "forbidden fruit". 

That would have prevented the need for "Salvation" and could have spared "his only begotten son" Jesus the grief.   

Yes, but man would never develop if God made all the decisions for him.

If God made himself visible today and said "I am real and the only way to Heaven is through me. I am going to remove all evil from the world and make all your decisions for you." There would be a whole lot more Christians but what would be left for man to do?

[Belsnickel]

(10-16-2015, 01:47 PM)GodHatesBengals Wrote: See, I've experienced that side of things, too, prior to deconverting. I didn't find it nearly as satisfying as you do. People who are into theology and apologetics and such managed to disappoint me even more, because their answers just don't hold muster. And as for people who embrace doubt... why bother, then? Warm fuzzy feelings and hoping to live forever, from what I can tell. Orgasms are a better means to the former; the latter is destructive.

Sometimes when we ask questions about this sort of thing, no answer will ever satisfy us.

A person can eat and drink food that is not to their liking for days on end and find less satisfaction than from a tiny morsel of something that just hits the right spot. I could eat pounds of kale and have less satisfaction in that than in one bite of a wurst. But someone else could be just the opposite. Faith, spirituality, religion, it's like that. It's a very personal thing that satisfies that need in your life better than any other. For some, their spiritual fulfillment is just the natural world, for some it is someone they love, for others it is one of the many religions.

It's something that all of us have, a need to have satisfied. To each their own on how it is done.

[WhoDeyWho]

(10-16-2015, 02:16 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Yes, but man would never develop if God made all the decisions for him.

If God made himself visible today and said "I am real and the only way to Heaven is through me. I am going to remove all evil from the world and make all your decisions for you." There would be a whole lot more Christians but what would be left for man to do?

Is man anymore "developed" now than they were thousands of years ago from a religious standpoint? I'd say no.  

If your argument was God only intercedes when necessary, then the Garden of Eden story seems like the most opportune time. 

And why would God create the world initially without evil, if indeed he thought a world minus evil was such a bad thing?  Are you saying that ultimately his desire was for Adam and Eve to eat the fruit after all?  

And I would argue there would be no Christians, because he would have never had to send his son to Earth to be killed in the first place.  

[GodHatesBengals]

(10-16-2015, 02:17 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Sometimes when we ask questions about this sort of thing, no answer will ever satisfy us.

A person can eat and drink food that is not to their liking for days on end and find less satisfaction from a tiny morsel of something that just hits the right spot. I could eat pounds of kale and have less satisfaction in that than in one bite of a wurst. But someone else could be just the opposite. Faith, spirituality, religion, it's like that. It's a very personal thing that satisfies that need in your life better than any other. For some, their spiritual fulfillment is just the natural world, for some it is someone they love, for others it is one of the many religions.

It's something that all of us have a need to have satisfied. To each their own on how it is done.

I guess the question is, at what point does something become hard enough to believe that there's no sense in believing it anymore?

To be honest, I did find an answer that satisfied me. And that answer was that Christianity is just another religion, just like all the ones I've never been a part of. It is a mixture of myth and history that offers (wrong) answers to complex questions, and an emotional relief to human beings who are naturally anxious about things like death, suffering, their self-worth, their moral failings, etc. It has some appealing moral lessons along with some truly abhorrent ones. It offers a unique view into the pre-scientific views of an ancient people; good, bad and ugly. It is worth learning about, but ultimately, not worth believing.

[Belsnickel]

(10-16-2015, 02:40 PM)GodHatesBengals Wrote: I guess the question is, at what point does something become hard enough to believe that there's no sense in believing it anymore?

Depends on what you focus on. I've looked critically at things in the Bible for years, but there is nothing that has made my belief in God or his grace through the death and resurrection of Jesus more difficult. The rest of it, all of the things people look for as faults in the Bible, those don't matter as much to the core belief of the faith. Can they help us better understand it? Depends on your relationship, on your faith.

(10-16-2015, 02:40 PM)GodHatesBengals Wrote: To be honest, I did find an answer that satisfied me. And that answer was that Christianity is just another religion, just like all the ones I've never been a part of. It is a mixture of myth and history that offers (wrong) answers to complex questions, and an emotional relief to human beings who are naturally anxious about things like death, suffering, their self-worth, their moral failings, etc. It has some appealing moral lessons along with some truly abhorrent ones. It offers a unique view into the pre-scientific views of an ancient people; good, bad and ugly. It is worth learning about, but ultimately, not worth believing.

But that was not the answer you got when asking the question of those believers. It was an answer you came to, or found elsewhere. It was what satisfied you.

[GodHatesBengals]

(10-15-2015, 10:51 AM)KingPoster Wrote: I'm not sure of any celebrations that occur during Good Friday. I know there are numerous observances to include worship service and fasting in some religions. As to the word good; it means holy in this context. Or there are some that think it is God that got lost in translation along the way. 

Oh? Please, do explain...

[XenoMorph]

(10-16-2015, 02:27 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Is man anymore "developed" now than they were thousands of years ago from a religious standpoint? I'd say no.  

If your argument was God only intercedes when necessary, then the Garden of Eden story seems like the most opportune time. 

And why would God create the world initially without evil, if indeed he thought a world minus evil was such a bad thing?  Are you saying that ultimately his desire was for Adam and Eve to eat the fruit after all?  

And I would argue there would be no Christians, because he would have never had to send his son to Earth to be killed in the first place.  

Depends on how you look at it while the major religions (christainty is like 3rd on the list) still have large numbers of followers the Number of non believers is growing so in that standpoint yes we are more developed. I like history and when you look thru history the story of a birth on the 25th of decemeber to a virgin isnt the first with christ. and thruout history Religion was used to control the uneducated masses with fear... one of the main reasons i cannot believe in any religion is they dont acknowledge each other.. If 1 god can exist more can as well. especially if a god is created by our belief in it. the other main reason is i think thruout the history of man before written text the story of god was personified from knowledge of the stars/sun/planets. to make the stories easier to remember and pass on to the next generation

[*bfine32*]

(10-16-2015, 02:27 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Is man anymore "developed" now than they were thousands of years ago from a religious standpoint? I'd say no.  

If your argument was God only intercedes when necessary, then the Garden of Eden story seems like the most opportune time. 

And why would God create the world initially without evil, if indeed he thought a world minus evil was such a bad thing?  Are you saying that ultimately his desire was for Adam and Eve to eat the fruit after all?  

And I would argue there would be no Christians, because he would have never had to send his son to Earth to be killed in the first place.  

No, we are most likely getting worse; perhaps time for another intervention

He did intercede. he told them want they did "wrong" and the price they must pay

His will was not for Adam to eat the Adam; however, God's will is not always done. Some say God has a will in everything; however, he cannot will everything (Augustine Theodicy).

Yes, we would never know the consiquences of our actions. As I said God did not create Robots; that's something for science.  

[KingPoster]

(10-16-2015, 03:06 PM)GodHatesBengals Wrote: Oh? Please, do explain...

This will probably do a better job
http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2014/04/18/why_is_good_friday_called_good_friday_the_etymology_and_origins_of_the_holiday.html

Quote:The second theory is that the Good in Good Friday derives from God or “God’s Friday.” Wikipedia, for example, puts this theory forward citing a 1909 entry in The Catholic Encyclopedia. In a separate article on the same subject, the Huffington Post does the same. However, there seems to be no basis for this etymology. “The origin from God is out of the question” according to Anatoly Liberman, a professor at the University of Minnesota who studies the origins of English words. (Liberman also told me that English speakers have a long history of speculating about a relationship between the word good and the word god where there is none.) The linguist and lexicographer Ben Zimmer agreed, noting that the German for Good Friday isn’t actually “Gottes Freitag” (“God’s Friday”), as the Catholic Encyclopedia suggests, but rather Karfreitag (“Sorrowful Friday”). “None of the early examples in the Oxford English Dictionary imply that it started off as God’s rather than Good, so I don’t really see this as more than speculative etymology,” Zimmer added.

[WhoDeyWho]

(10-16-2015, 03:19 PM)bfine32 Wrote: No, we are most likely getting worse; perhaps time for another intervention

He did intercede. he told them want they did "wrong" and the price they must pay

His will was not for Adam to eat the Adam; however, God's will is not always done. Some say God has a will in everything; however, he cannot will everything (Augustine Theodicy).

Yes, we would never know the consiquences of our actions. As I said God did not create Robots; that's something for science.  

That's not "interceding".  That happened AFTER THE FACT.  

He butts in when man attempts to build something they never could have built, and he stands pat when sin over takes his "perfect" creation, which requires him to "sacrifice" his son in order for us to be redeemed.  And since that time there is no sign that a lesson has been learned by mankind.

Brilliant.

Doesn't make much sense unless he is just a horrible planner.  

[*bfine32*]

(10-16-2015, 03:46 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: That's not "interceding".  That happened AFTER THE FACT.  

He butts in when man attempts to build something they never could have built, and he stands pat when sin over takes his "perfect" creation, which requires him to "sacrifice" his son in order for us to be redeemed.  And since that time there is no sign that a lesson has been learned by mankind.

Brilliant.

Doesn't make much sense unless he is just a horrible planner.  

Oh, you meant intercede as in prevent; I used it as to reconcile differences between parties.

Yes, he "butts in" when he feels it is appropriate and sometime on a very small scale.

I don't think brilliant is the right desriptive; I'd go with unimaginable.

Perhaps it doesn't make sense if you look at it analytically

[WhoDeyWho]

(10-16-2015, 04:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Oh, you meant intercede as in prevent; I used it as to reconcile differences between parties.

Yes, he "butts in" when he feels it is appropriate and sometime on a very small scale.

I don't think brilliant is the right desriptive; I'd go with unimaginable.

Perhaps it doesn't make sense if you look at it analytically

Indeed it does not make any sense.  Unfortunately logic, is the only tool I have for making sense of things.  

[*bfine32*]

(10-16-2015, 04:01 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Indeed it does not make any sense.  Unfortunately logic, is the only tool I have for making sense of things.  

I assume you don't like art. 

You look at the world solely in an analytical fashion you will miss a great many things. 

[WhoDeyWho]

(10-16-2015, 05:35 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I assume you don't like art. 

You look at the world solely in an analytical fashion you will miss a great many things. 

I do like art, but I don't worship it and it isn't the basis for my worldview.  

[*bfine32*]

(10-16-2015, 05:59 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: I do like art, but I don't worship it and it isn't the basis for my worldview.  

You don't worship art because you don't consider it sacred.

What is the basis for your worldview?

[GodHatesBengals]

(10-16-2015, 03:42 PM)KingPoster Wrote: This will probably do a better job
http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2014/04/18/why_is_good_friday_called_good_friday_the_etymology_and_origins_of_the_holiday.html

Oh, okay. Thanks.

This is much more reasonable than the responses you post under your bfine32 username. You should stick with this alternate personality instead.

[WhoDeyWho]

(10-16-2015, 06:10 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You don't worship art because you don't consider it sacred.

What is the basis for your worldview?

Why would I consider art "sacred"?

I guess the basis for my worldview are my personal experiences and ability to think rationally and logically.