Seattle and the minimum wage increase

[*PhilHos*]

(07-22-2015, 12:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So how do you know that there are more jobs than workers available?

I'm a part of the Chamber of Commerce. Most of the business people that I've met through the Chamber have told me how they have jobs (some minimum wage, some higher) available but it's a struggle filling those positions because there aren't enough applicants.

[fredtoast]

(07-22-2015, 12:42 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Yes, sometimes life does that, but the smart people are prepared. I'm smart, but I'm also lazy and a little greedy. I'd rather spend the money on me now than save it for later, but that's still MY decision.

If my company went under tomorrow and I had to find a new job right away and it was a struggle, guess what, that's MY fault for not being prepared, which is really bad because I KNOW I should be saving money. lol

And we would end up supporting your children.  And if you got sick or injured then we would all end up paying for your medical expenses. 

Yet you come here and brag about how superior you are to everyone else who needs government assistance.  The fact is that you have made a lot of bad decisions and have been lucky.

[*Nately120*]

(07-22-2015, 12:49 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Even if every person worked as hard as he could there would still be the same percentage of jobs that would pay minimum wage.

That is the way the system works.  That is the truth that some people try to hide.  It is impossible for everyone to have a high paying job no matter how hard everyone works.  the system is set up so that a large portion of the workers will get low pay.  The wealthy elite try to blame poverty on laziness, but in fact the system is to blame.  When they are asked to pay higher wages because the system is not fair they start the propaganda machine pumping out the lie that if everyone worked hard then everyone would have a high paying job.  That just is not true.  In fact it is impossible under our current system.

I always found it rather scoff-worthy that the same general faction that finds things like "everyone gets a trophy" day to be either stupid or detrimental to society also go around spreading the feel-good bs that anyone can be as successful as he/she wants just by working hard and doing the right things.

Yea, my arse life is that fair.

[fredtoast]

(07-22-2015, 12:53 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I'm a part of the Chamber of Commerce. Most of the business people that I've met through the Chamber have told me how they have jobs (some minimum wage, some higher) available but it's a struggle filling those positions because there aren't enough applicants.

I find this very hard to believe for  a couple of reasons.  First, everyone who receives unemployment benefits is required to look for work and apply for jobs.  Second, every single place I have ever lived there have been temp agencies full of people so desperate for work that they will take anything.

It doesn't make sense that there is no temp agency in your area or any person receiving unemployment benefits.

[*Nately120*]

(07-22-2015, 12:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The fact is that you have made a lot of bad decisions and have been lucky.

So have the Bush's and Kennedy's!  Heck, maybe if I would have applied myself less in school and did more drugs I coulda been someone like them.  Drat.  How do I look in the mirror, I wonder.

[*PhilHos*]

(07-22-2015, 12:49 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Even if every person worked as hard as he could there would still be the same percentage of jobs that would pay minimum wage.

That is the way the system works.  That is the truth that some people try to hide.  It is impossible for everyone to have a high paying job no matter how hard everyone works. 

Assuming that is true, and, honestly, I'm inclined to agree with you, it is also true that even on minimum wage, it's possible to make ends meet. People (regardless if they are making minimum wage or not) need to start living within their means and start recognizing what are luxuries and what are essentials.

fredtoast Wrote:... if everyone worked hard then everyone would have a high paying job.  That just is not true.  In fact it is impossible under our current system.

Then why raise minimum wage? I agree that not everyone can work a high-paying job, so why are we trying to make every job higher paying?

[*PhilHos*]

(07-22-2015, 12:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: And we would end up supporting your children.  And if you got sick or injured then we would all end up paying for your medical expenses. 

Yet you come here and brag about how superior you are to everyone else who needs government assistance.  The fact is that you have made a lot of bad decisions and have been lucky.

5 years ago, I quit my job and spent 3 months looking for work and moved and spent 3 more months looking for work. The ENTIRE TIME I WAS LOOKING FOR WORK, I NEVER RECEIVED GOVERNMENT ASSISTANCE. I never even applied.

So save your sanctimony for someone who cares what you think. 

[fredtoast]

(07-22-2015, 12:59 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Then why raise minimum wage? I agree that not everyone can work a high-paying job, so why are we trying to make every job higher paying?

Because some of us have hearts and feel that people who work hard full time should not have to suffer in poverty while they live in a country that is producing more profits than any other place on earth.  The rich are getting obscenely rich while hard working people struggle to live paycheck to paycheck. I just don't feel this is fair.

We have to have a capitalist economy.  It works great and motivates people to make more money and be more productive.  But unchecked capitalism results in the lower classes living in abject poverty while an elite few rake in all the profits.   

[*PhilHos*]

(07-22-2015, 12:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I find this very hard to believe for  a couple of reasons.  First, everyone who receives unemployment benefits is required to look for work and apply for jobs.  Second, every single place I have ever lived there have been temp agencies full of people so desperate for work that they will take anything.

It doesn't make sense that there is no temp agency in your area or any person receiving unemployment benefits.

I don't know about temp agencies, but there are people receiving unemployment benefits. Here's the tihng though, you only have to make it LOOK like your looking for work to receive unemployment. Just one of the many issues with government assistance.

I'm surprised you've not heard about it.

[fredtoast]

(07-22-2015, 01:02 PM)PhilHos Wrote: 5 years ago, I quit my job and spent 3 months looking for work and moved and spent 3 more months looking for work. The ENTIRE TIME I WAS LOOKING FOR WORK, I NEVER RECEIVED GOVERNMENT ASSISTANCE. I never even applied.

So save your sanctimony for someone who cares what you think. 

But you just admitted that you have no savings.

How would you support yourself and three children on a minimum wage job?  How would you pay medical bills if you or one of them got sick or injured?

[*PhilHos*]

(07-22-2015, 01:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Because some of us have hearts and feel that people who work hard full time should not have to suffer in poverty while they live in a country that is producing more profits than any other place on earth.  The rich are getting obscenely rich while hard working people struggle to live paycheck to paycheck. I just don't feel this is fair.

We have to have a capitalist economy.  It works great and motivates people to make more money and be more productive.  But unchecked capitalism results in the lower classes living in abject poverty while an elite few rake in all the profits.   

Your first paragraph is the biggest load of crap since that dump I took a few days ago right after I had about 20 wings from Buffalo Wild Wings.

What's more sad is that I agree with your 2nd paragraph.

[*Nately120*]

(07-22-2015, 12:59 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Assuming that is true, and, honestly, I'm inclined to agree with you, it is also true that even on minimum wage, it's possible to make ends meet. People (regardless if they are making minimum wage or not) need to start living within their means and start recognizing what are luxuries and what are essentials.


Then why raise minimum wage? I agree that not everyone can work a high-paying job, so why are we trying to make every job higher paying?

I thought the argument (not yours specifically) against raising minimum wage was that the only people attempting to live off it are kids, septuagenarians with SS benefits, and people who made so many terrible life choices they would have starved 100 years ago.

Living within your means on some $6 an hour after taxes is what is leading to poor people eating off the dollar menu (actually, I just found out they phased this out) 3 times a day, living in the crappiest of conditions, and clogging the system with their sick bs when you really need to work another 80 hours a week!

[fredtoast]

(07-22-2015, 01:04 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I don't know about temp agencies, but there are people receiving unemployment benefits. Here's the tihng though, you only have to make it LOOK like your looking for work to receive unemployment. Just one of the many issues with government assistance.

I'm surprised you've not heard about it.

You have to apply for jobs.  So why are these people you know not getting anyone to apply for their jobs?

I am not saying it is impossible.  I am just saying I fond it hard to believe when so many people are looking for jobs.

[*PhilHos*]

(07-22-2015, 01:06 PM)fredtoast Wrote: But you just admitted that you have no savings.

How would you support yourself and three children on a minimum wage job?  How would you pay medical bills if you or one of them got sick or injured?

Fred, you're missing the point. The point is that if I had gotten sick and couldn't afford it or what have you, that it would have been MY FAULT.

[*bfine32*]

(07-22-2015, 01:08 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You have to apply for jobs.  So why are these people you know not getting anyone to apply for their jobs?

I am not saying it is impossible.  I am just saying I fond it hard to believe when so many people are looking for jobs.

I know some that will apply for jobs that they know that they are not qualified for just to meet the "apply" criteria.

[fredtoast]

(07-22-2015, 01:07 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Your first paragraph is the biggest load of crap since that dump I took a few days ago right after I had about 20 wings from Buffalo Wild Wings.

Very colorful comment, but it contains zero substance.

Everything I said in the first paragraph is 100% true.  The US economy is producing hundreds of billions in profits, but it is all being funneled to the top while people working full time struggle to get by.

[fredtoast]

(07-22-2015, 01:10 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I know some that will apply for jobs that they know that they are not qualified for just to meet the "apply" criteria.

Who is not qualified for a minimum wage job?

[fredtoast]

(07-22-2015, 01:09 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Fred, you're missing the point. The point is that if I had gotten sick and couldn't afford it or what have you, that it would have been MY FAULT.

I 100% agree that it would be your fault.  But people like me would be the ones paying for it.

[*PhilHos*]

(07-22-2015, 01:07 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I thought the argument (not yours specifically) against raising minimum wage was that the only people attempting to live off it are kids, septuagenarians with SS benefits, and people who made so many terrible life choices they would have starved 100 years ago.

Living within your means on some $6 an hour after taxes is what is leading to poor people eating off the dollar menu (actually, I just found out they phased this out) 3 times a day, living in the crappiest of conditions, and clogging the system with their sick bs when you really need to work another 80 hours a week!

The minimum wage is not, nor should it be a LIVABLE wage. There's no doubt that there are people trying to live on minimum wage. Raising minimum wage or raising it too high is not the solution, IMO.

[*bfine32*]

(07-22-2015, 01:12 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Who is not qualified for a minimum wage job?

I'm not sure. It just seems you were confused about why there were some minimum wage job openings that some unemployed people didn't apply for.

If you were making more on unemployment than you could at a minimum wage job, would you apply for one?