THIS is what black people be talking about…

[RunKijanaRun]

I can’t add much that hasn’t been said already.

Just..wow. Maybe there are a few teams that could do a better job with minority hiring than they are, but the Bengals?

[jfkbengals]

(10-02-2022, 09:06 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: You’re right.

Tom Flores had 9 years, Art Shell had 7 years, and Hue Jackson had 1. So…more than the 16 years by Marvin Lewis.

Funny thing is I thought Shell had the longer tenure over Flores. Thanks for looking it up.

[Housh]

(10-02-2022, 06:27 PM)Roland Wrote: Notice that she uses "POC" to try to dodge the demographic representation question. Really, we need more Somoans on the coaching staff. Is Domata Peko interested in coaching?

They say POC when they just don’t wanna say black


Because for some reason right now to be PC you can’t just say something is a black issue even when it obviously is .

But that’s another rant

[TKUHL]

(10-02-2022, 11:01 AM)dr tarzan Wrote: https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/sports/columnist/nancy-armour/2022/09/29/cincinnati-bengals-show-nfl-coaching-diversity-matter-priority/10438832002/

"the Bengals are the worst in the NFL, their staff a reflection of why the league is still struggling with systemic racism in hiring almost two decades after the adoption of the Rooney Rule.
If you wanted a case study of why the NFL’s diversity woes continue, the Bengals would be it.
Now they're just another team standing in the way of the NFL's progress on opportunity and equality. "


"Now, this isn’t to say owner Mike Brown, who also acts as the Bengals GM, or Taylor are racist. Or even aware of the biases and stereotypes reflected in Cincinnati’s staff."

Not saying?, ....as my Dad used to say...."spontaneous denial is just another way of admitting guilt".    That is exactly what Tom Schad and Steve Berkowitz and Nancy Armour  are saying---just using a disclaimer to avoid potential libel suit.

This has got to be a joke! Paul Brown brought in Motley and Willis at a time….you know what never mind. Can’t bring up facts when it comes to this. Wtf was I thinking.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-02-2022, 11:23 AM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: We do have Mike Browns children and grandchildren running a lot of management positions but idk if that counts for diversity since it’s family?

Side note: it’s not Mike Browns fault that Akili was such a bust it scared him away from black quarterbacks. (I jest of course but how many black QB’s have been on the team since the 90’s? Josh Johnson? And he’s played on I think every team in the league)

Mike Brown wanted to sign Michael Vick once he got out of jail. Goodell "suggested" Vick go to Philadelphia in the interest of making sure his transition out of jail and back into the NFL was smoother and more stable. In 2008 Ahmad Brooks was released for assault, Chris Henry was released for assault and later re-signed, and Odell was made eligible but released before being suspended again. So arguably the right call, but still.

Mike Brown also wanted Colin Kaepernick (and Ryan Mallett), but Jay Gruden wanted Dalton.

[tms]

I don't know why any of us would get defensive about it. It is embarrassing.

>60% = two teams
50 - 59.9% = five teams
40 - 49.9%.= twelve teams
30 - 39.9% = twelve teams
< 30 = one team (Bengals, 23.81%)

It is not just #32. It is a statistically significant drop from #31 to #32. So we're gonna say it's an anomaly? If it was in the 60s we wouldn't say it was an anomaly. We clearly do things our own way. For some things I wish we were at least middle-of-the-pack. This would be one of those things. Have some courage to look in the mirror sometimes and make adjustments.

[Interceptor]

(10-03-2022, 01:26 AM)tms Wrote: I don't know why any of us would get defensive about it. It is embarrassing.

>60% = two teams
50 - 59.9% = five teams
40 - 49.9%.= twelve teams
30 - 39.9% = twelve teams
< 30 = one team (Bengals, 23.81%)

It is not just #32. It is a statistically significant drop from #31 to #32. So we're gonna say it's an anomaly? If it was in the 60s we wouldn't say it was an anomaly. We clearly do things our own way. For some things I wish we were at least middle-of-the-pack. This would be one of those things. Have some courage to look in the mirror sometimes and make adjustments.

Are these stats for the last couple of years? What about the last 20 years, where do we stand with that?

[OUatown]

Our society is in big big trouble. People need things to write about. The Marvin Lewis years apparently don’t count anymore!

[*michaelsean*]

(10-03-2022, 01:26 AM)tms Wrote: I don't know why any of us would get defensive about it. It is embarrassing.

>60% = two teams
50 - 59.9% = five teams
40 - 49.9%.= twelve teams
30 - 39.9% = twelve teams
< 30 = one team (Bengals, 23.81%)

It is not just #32. It is a statistically significant drop from #31 to #32. So we're gonna say it's an anomaly? If it was in the 60s we wouldn't say it was an anomaly. We clearly do things our own way. For some things I wish we were at least middle-of-the-pack. This would be one of those things. Have some courage to look in the mirror sometimes and make adjustments.

You have to start at 1990 and compare the Bengals to the other teams year by year. Also do you know if any black coaches have turned down jobs?

[*bengalfan74*]

In a word BS, well I guess two words.

[Mickeypoo]

Ok, I have an honest question and maybe it is stupid, but I will ask anyway.

When it comes to black and white, why are people so hung up on equal representation?

Now before you skewer me, I ask because the black population of the USA is approximately 13% and the white population of the USA is approximately 60%. How can equal representation be expected?

[Sled21]

(10-03-2022, 09:20 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Ok, I have an honest question and maybe it is stupid, but I will ask anyway.

When it comes to black and white, why are people so hung up on equal representation?

Now before you skewer me, I ask because the black population of the USA is approximately 13% and the white population of the USA is approximately 60%.  How can equal representation be expected?

You notice the people making noise about wanting "X" number of coaches to be minority are dead silent on the same ratios going towards the players.

[CJD]

(10-03-2022, 09:20 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Ok, I have an honest question and maybe it is stupid, but I will ask anyway.

When it comes to black and white, why are people so hung up on equal representation?

Now before you skewer me, I ask because the black population of the USA is approximately 13% and the white population of the USA is approximately 60%.  How can equal representation be expected?

Because year over year, the NFL itself is around 60 to 70% black (depending on the year) but, for some strange reason, very few of them end up being hired as coaches after they retire.

Is it personal choice? Do most black players who grew up playing the game as children, high school students, college athletes and professionals suddenly decide that they're done with football after retirement? Do white players just have "it" when it comes to teaching players things and running teams?

Or is it a systemic issue? (spoiler: It's probably this one).

Regarding the article, it's unfortunate that the Bengals have fallen so far. I liked Marvin and he had a diverse cast of coaches and the franchise helped several black coaches get their first chance at being a head coach (Vance Joseph, Marvin Lewis, Hue Jackson).

I do think it's reductive to look at this as a Bengals issue. We hired Zac, who is white, and he hired several coaches that he had already worked with in his past, likely as a comfort thing. And, surprisingly, the coaches that he worked with were mostly white.

Our ST coordinator is white, even back when we were a really diverse coaching staff, and he was retained due to his experience. Our OC and DC are white, which were personal hires by Zac based on people he knew in previous jobs. Also, it's worth keeping in mind that a lot of coaches were not interested in joining this staff in 2019, so we didn't have the pick of the litter. Zac hired people he knew because no one else wanted to join such a bad team with such shitty management/ownership. 

The good news is we have a few black coaches that I think could eventually join the ranks of Joseph, Jackson, Lewis and Frazier as black coaches who worked with the Bengals who went on to become head coaches. Marion Hobby is our Dline coach and I think he's done an absolutely outstanding job coaching up our Dline. I think he gets calls about defensive coordinator openings in the next few years. Same with Troy Walters, our WR coach. I think he has really good leadership with his group of receivers and they obviously are very well coached. We'll see how things go, but I like both of these coaches and think they're ascending talents in the NFL.

I don't think this article is saying the Bengals did anything wrong in who they chose to hire. I think it's more a commentary on how hard it is for black coaches to break those "in circles" that Zac was obviously hiring from. Or the "in circle" that Zac was part of to begin with such that he could be hired as a head coach without ever being a fulltime coordinator (which I still think is so ridiculous). At least, I think that's the resultant take away from her article. Maybe she's just race baiting, I'm not sure. It is a very poorly written article overall.

[Joelist]

Can we move this to Politics? It really is not a discussion for Jungle Noise.

[SunsetBengal]

(10-03-2022, 10:21 AM)Joelist Wrote: Can we move this to Politics? It really is not a discussion for Jungle Noise.

Seeing how the article in the link posted in the OP directly focuses on the Bengals organization, it kind of does make it Jungle Noise.  As long as the discussion remains civil, friendly and focused on how it pertains to the team.

Remember, you always have the option of simply scrolling past any thread, post or dialogue that you don't personally agree with. 

[KillerGoose]

(10-03-2022, 09:20 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Ok, I have an honest question and maybe it is stupid, but I will ask anyway.

When it comes to black and white, why are people so hung up on equal representation?

Now before you skewer me, I ask because the black population of the USA is approximately 13% and the white population of the USA is approximately 60%.  How can equal representation be expected?

Not a stupid question. The answer would be proportionate representation, not equal representation. 

[XenoMorph]

(10-03-2022, 10:57 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: Not a stupid question. The answer would be proportionate representation, not equal representation. 

Which would be About 4 out of 32 (if we assume each team has 1 coach per position)

[*michaelsean*]

(10-03-2022, 10:19 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Because year over year, the NFL itself is around 60 to 70% black (depending on the year) but, for some strange reason, very few of them end up being hired as coaches after they retire.

Is it personal choice? Do most black players who grew up playing the game as children, high school students, college athletes and professionals suddenly decide that they're done with football after retirement? Do white players just have "it" when it comes to teaching players things and running teams?

Or is it a systemic issue? (spoiler: It's probably this one).

Regarding the article, it's unfortunate that the Bengals have fallen so far. I liked Marvin and he had a diverse cast of coaches and the franchise helped several black coaches get their first chance at being a head coach (Vance Joseph, Marvin Lewis, Hue Jackson).

I do think it's reductive to look at this as a Bengals issue. We hired Zac, who is white, and he hired several coaches that he had already worked with in his past, likely as a comfort thing. And, surprisingly, the coaches that he worked with were mostly white.

Our ST coordinator is white, even back when we were a really diverse coaching staff, and he was retained due to his experience. Our OC and DC are white, which were personal hires by Zac based on people he knew in previous jobs. Also, it's worth keeping in mind that a lot of coaches were not interested in joining this staff in 2019, so we didn't have the pick of the litter. Zac hired people he knew because no one else wanted to join such a bad team with such shitty management/ownership. 

The good news is we have a few black coaches that I think could eventually join the ranks of Joseph, Jackson, Lewis and Frazier as black coaches who worked with the Bengals who went on to become head coaches. Marion Hobby is our Dline coach and I think he's done an absolutely outstanding job coaching up our Dline. I think he gets calls about defensive coordinator openings in the next few years. Same with Troy Walters, our WR coach. I think he has really good leadership with his group of receivers and they obviously are very well coached. We'll see how things go, but I like both of these coaches and think they're ascending talents in the NFL.

I don't think this article is saying the Bengals did anything wrong in who they chose to hire. I think it's more a commentary on how hard it is for black coaches to break those "in circles" that Zac was obviously hiring from. Or the "in circle" that Zac was part of to begin with such that he could be hired as a head coach without ever being a fulltime coordinator (which I still think is so ridiculous). At least, I think that's the resultant take away from her article. Maybe she's just race baiting, I'm not sure. It is a very poorly written article overall.

I mean someone could say white people don't get as much of a chance to go on to the next level of playing so they concentrate on becoming coaches.  I think that's as valid as the nonsense the ginger is spouting.

[CJD]

(10-03-2022, 12:21 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I mean someone could say white people don't get as much of a chance to go on to the next level of playing so they concentrate on becoming coaches.  I think that's as valid as the nonsense the ginger is spouting.

That's possible. I am still a relatively young fan, so I haven't yet seen many players from when I first began watching become coaches, other than a few like Byron Leftwich and DeMeco Ryans. Many coaches coming up now are people I've never heard of as players (like Zac Taylor). So there's a chance that success in the NFL as a player does not directly correlate to success as a coach.

I'm not sure that explains the disparity between black players and black coaches though. If 60 to 70% of players are black, the assumption would be that that same (or similar) percentage would carry into the "people that don't get as much of a chance to go on to the next level of playing so they concentrate on becoming coaches" pool as well.

[740Bengal]

This Bulls*&^ isn't worth the clicks my fingers made to type this.