Trump, lets move on
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Trump, lets move on
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07-22-2022, 11:39 AM
(07-21-2022, 09:59 PM)Stewy Wrote: Nice cherry picking. Is there a reason why you didn't choose the latest poll? Me: "Man, 2016 and 2020 were brutal elections. Surely they're going to have to eventually have some good, or even okay, candidates again... right?" 2024: ![[Image: president.webp?w=790&f=6dd49a4626fad94a4...03089a71b2]](https://d.newsweek.com/en/full/2082285/president.webp?w=790&f=6dd49a4626fad94a43591503089a71b2)
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07-22-2022, 01:21 PM
(07-21-2022, 09:59 PM)Stewy Wrote: Nice cherry picking. Is there a reason why you didn't choose the latest poll? https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3570461-trump-leads-biden-sanders-in-hypothetical-2024-matchups-poll/ remember when polling said trump had no chance the first time he won lol. polling will say a lot of things between now and 2024. you can cling to the ones you like and pretend other ones ain't existing but it's the people who will decide, not polls. theres a reason the doj won't charge trump with anything. all this jan 6 stuff was a big show with no teeth. trumps base will come out strong to have his back and rinos who are talking crap right now will be a different story when trump gets the nomination again. 
07-22-2022, 01:34 PM
(07-22-2022, 01:21 PM)Tiger Blood Wrote: https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3570461-trump-leads-biden-sanders-in-hypothetical-2024-matchups-poll/ I don't remember that as you do. Early in the primary, people were saying he had no chance, back when he was paying actors to attend his announcement. But in the weeks before the election he was neck and neck with Hillary. Probably the deciding factor was Comey's annoucement he had re-opened an investigation into Hillary. As for the second bolded--sounds like you are saying that there was no insurrection, no attempted coup, or even if there was, no biggy. And we don't really know if "the people will decide" next time around, if Republican legislators in enough swing states get to pick their own slate of electors, regardless of how the people in their state voted. ![[Image: 4CV0TeR.png]](https://i.imgur.com/4CV0TeR.png)
07-22-2022, 01:45 PM
(07-21-2022, 10:10 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Will not feed the troll. I don't think we are dealing with a "troll." I think we are dealing with one of the millions of Republicans who still believes the far right framing of Trump's presidency--the man of the (white) people who was opposed by the "deep state." The latter explains how many Trump supporters and far far right commentators are about to explain away his anti-democratic governance. What used to be called "checks and balances" is now cast as deep-state opposition of liberals and RINOs to block Trump's efforts to drain the swamp. That he was using the presidency for personal profit, for protection from prosecution for wrong doing, destroying years of policy and potential policy, is not something that people can follow well in the RWM bubble. That's "fake news." Shouldn't be listening to the MSM at all. Just listen to trump, though don't take him literally. 50 million believers is why we can't just "move on" from Trump. That mass of disinformed voters is going to be a problem for at least another decade. 
07-22-2022, 01:49 PM
(07-21-2022, 02:34 PM)Tiger Blood Wrote: the "system" is the problem. trump took on the system and that ticked a whole lot of people off. The "system" is a liberal democracy. Trump took on democracy and ticked a whole lot of people off--people who believed in democracy and prized the U.S. Constitution. At the last, even his own appointees were considering the 25th Amendment.
07-22-2022, 02:10 PM
(07-21-2022, 02:18 PM)Tiger Blood Wrote: failures as a human? can you name me one politician that don't have failures or skeletons as a person? Perhaps some "failures" are more critical than others. Trump's "imperfection" centered his lack of character, honesty, and the kind of background knowledge one needs to run a superpower. The "cult" label gets attached to Trump followers because they follow a leader without question, and they are ready to set aside democratic governance to keep him. The more he breaks the law, the more they love him. Like cult followers, they deny the leader's wrong doing and project great evil upon the normal, competent people who oppose him. Like cult followers, they learn not to listen to "outsiders" who see the leaders flaws plainly. Finally, AUTOCRATIC foreign leaders DID like Trump. He weakened U.S. power and credibility, especially among allies. Start with Putin, then Kim, then Duterte in the Philipines, Orban in Hungary, Erdogan in Turkey and Bolsonaro in Brazil. They didn't want to "push him around"; they wanted him to keep breaking things. Putin got Trump to side with him against U.S. Intel agencies and even obstruct sanctions on Russia. No president has ever been so openly manipulated by an adversary. Trump support is not about "fighting back against what's wrong" if "wrong" is defined by RWM and politicians to protect THEIR interests, not their constituencies'--even to the point of scrapping democracy.
07-22-2022, 02:34 PM
(07-22-2022, 01:45 PM)Dill Wrote: I don't think we are dealing with a "troll." i get called a troll every time i give my opinions on here even though evreyone else is giving there opinions to and i dont call them names even if i think they are completely wrong. not saying you bud, you aren't calling me that but many others have. people on here wnat to act like all all alone supporting trump, but 75 million of my fellow americans agreed with me. people want to act like we don't exist. all i can say to people is keep accusing me of being a troll or being in a cult, but just wait till you see how all of us trolls and cults show up to the polls in 2024. sorry buddy, didn't mean to rant towards you but i'm just getting sick of people being like trump supporters don't have a right to say there piece. as far as what you said here, trump ain't perfect i agree. but i think he's the type that is needed to tear all this down and expose all the corruption and lies and nasty stuff going on in politics. people want to talk about lying, misinformation, fake news and personal profit and all this stuff. well guess what. thats been going on forever and all trump does whether you agree with his tatics or not is shining a big light on it and making sure every amercan sees behind the curtain. this country needs a political revolution and that ain't happening with a washington politian. and im not talking about violence, i mean turning washington and it's filth upside down and starting with something new and better.
07-22-2022, 02:54 PM
(07-22-2022, 02:34 PM)Tiger Blood Wrote: i get called a troll every time i give my opinions on here even though evreyone else is giving there opinions to and i dont call them names even if i think they are completely wrong. not saying you bud, you aren't calling me that but many others have. people on here wnat to act like all all alone supporting trump, but 75 million of my fellow americans agreed with me. people want to act like we don't exist. all i can say to people is keep accusing me of being a troll or being in a cult, but just wait till you see how all of us trolls and cults show up to the polls in 2024. Right, I don't call anyone a "troll." And I happily admit/recognize that Trump supporters are sincere in their support. They DO believe the election was stolen, that Trump was a good president, and the MSM are "liars." I think if more liberals and "RINOS" recognized that sincerity, and the massive NUMBERS of people who hold these beliefs, they would take more seriously the problem of prepared and calculated disinformation and stop asking why we can't get past Trump. And I wish more trump supporters would come forward and explain their position, as I also wish they would engage non-Trumpers like myself in good faith, with respect for evidence and logic. I'd like to know what you think Trump showed us was "behind the curtain." Seems to me he spent a lot of time hiding what he was doing, firing whistelblowers and the like.
07-22-2022, 03:05 PM
(07-22-2022, 02:54 PM)Dill Wrote: Right, I don't call anyone a "troll." And I happily admit/recognize that Trump supporters are sincere in their support. They DO believe the election was stolen, that Trump was a good president, and the MSM are "liars." I think if more liberals and "RINOS" recognized that sincerity, and the massive NUMBERS of people who hold these beliefs, they would take more seriously the problem of prepared and calculated disinformation and stop asking why we can't get past Trump. i'm always willing to explai what i believe or think as long as people dont just start hating because they might disagree like the guy who keeps following me around putting thumbs down and mad faces on all my posts? what does that accomplish? you seem sincere though and at leat willing to hear what i say instead of automatically calling me names. that's what people don't get, if you want to know why people really support trump, some of it is those kind of rections we have to deal with every day. being told we aren't smart, or we're racist or we're liars. we are literally trying to tell you what are issues are and what we belive but people just want to say 75 million people are completely wrong and trolls or in a cult. thank buddy for at least making an effort. as far as behind the curtain i would say trump was actually doing stuff pretty open overall. stuff other poloticians would have went to great lengths to hide. like the georgia phone call. he didnt try to hide it. he knew it was being recorded but people make it sound otherwise.
07-22-2022, 04:00 PM
(07-22-2022, 03:05 PM)Tiger Blood Wrote: i'm always willing to explai what i believe or think as long as people dont just start hating because they might disagree like the guy who keeps following me around putting thumbs down and mad faces on all my posts? what does that accomplish? Because the words you type are the very, "sin," that you are propagating that non-Trumpers, "live in." I'm glad that Dill is being respectful and tolerant, 'cause while I am an INCREDIBLY respectful and tolerant person, your homeboy has caused my country to have PsOS act like the morons in your country and have subsequently caused my quality of life to be more saddening and distraught and subsequently, I choose to not be tolerant of the crap you spew. We aren't the US, we don't have the same parties, affiliations, issues (outside of economic), etc., than you guys do, so WTF is your shit spreading up here? For that reason, **** all y'all. As I wrote in the post when you were banned the first time (and should have been perma-banned), I will downvote and voice my displeasure at will; an extra click or two won't shorten or disturb my day and is somewhat cathartic. PS: I'm not following you around; you just decide to post your lunacy and incredibly stupid/backwards/racist/intolerant/etc. attitude in literally EVERY thread I've been posting in, so it's natural to see your posts and let that catharsis flow. PPS: AND ANOTHER THING. Unlike you, "Christians," (which is so paradoxical, as American Christianity perpetuates almost the complete opposite of what the Bible preaches in either Old or New Testament), we studied the Bible in Catholic High School for 3 years (4 if you didn't take philosophy in grade 12, which I did), from meanings, context, symbols, etc. and we didn't do, "Bible Study," like all of you do and completely bastardise and distort what it says... or take things literally which is 100% what you're not supposed to do. If you want to believe Samson had all of his hair grow back in days and then collapse a temple by pushing on two pillars, go right ahead; a Catholic will see that as an allegory for regaining your faith and working with good intentions, with all you have, to make things right and you will look like a lunatic, because you will believe it word for word. You all quote the Bible, but can't actually discuss or explain any of the meaning/symbolism behind it, because the ignorance of, "American Christianity," has indoctrinated all to read it verbatim. If Jesus had a grave and his body was interred, he'd've spun 5 million times in the past 6 years alone. ![[Image: Truck_1_0_1_.png]](https://card.psnprofiles.com/2/Truck_1_0_1_.png)
07-22-2022, 05:20 PM
(07-22-2022, 01:21 PM)Tiger Blood Wrote: https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3570461-trump-leads-biden-sanders-in-hypothetical-2024-matchups-poll/ So the man who brought up an old cherry picked poll as his solid proof as to Trump's relevancy is now dismissing their value because he got caught by the tails of his own manipulations. LOL Ok. Welcome to my ignore list. You officially bring no value to these boards and I am done with you. 
07-22-2022, 05:42 PM
(07-22-2022, 04:00 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Because the words you type are the very, "sin," that you are propagating that non-Trumpers, "live in." I agree with most of your thoughts on Trump supporters and / or the far Right, as I think they are polluting America -- and other places in turn -- with of type of ignorance and rejection of that which is factual is extremely dangerous and worrisome. I'm not suggesting we shouldn't try to talk with them, reason with them, etc; but it's becoming more and more difficult when we don't share a common reality. I would offer the same criticism towards many of the religious ilk as well. Your views are rather interesting in respects to the Bible. You assert that one is not supposed to take things literally. Of course, it is that case that parts of the Bible are meant to be purely allegorical, but It's also the case that other parts are meant to be taken very literally. Are the detailed instructions on how to own other human beings allegorical? Of course not. The Bible contains both allegorical and literal; both descriptive and prescriptive. The larger and more problematic issue is that one can derive evil intentions and immoral actions just as easily as they can good and moral teachings, because both exist.
07-22-2022, 06:08 PM
(07-22-2022, 05:42 PM)Lucidus Wrote: I agree with most of your thoughts on Trump supporters and / or the far Right, as I think they are polluting America -- and other places in turn -- with of type of ignorance and rejection of that which is factual is extremely dangerous and worrisome. I'm not suggesting we shouldn't try to talk with them, reason with them, etc; but it's becoming more and more difficult when we don't share a common reality. Absolutely correct on your part. However, a modicum of common sense and modern morality must be used when reading it; we know that keeping slaves is morally, socially and just outright wrong, so that would be eschewed. Like Morpheus says to Neo about the Oracle in the first film, "don't think about it in terms of right and wrong. She is a guide, Neo..." which then leads to the Oracle telling him in Reloaded, "... I expect what I've always expected you to do; make up your own damn mind, believe me or not." Everyone's relationship with God is personal and reading scripture is meant to be done contextually, taking from it lessons and morals that you are to use to live the best life you possibly can... or you don't. It isn't black and white: NOTHING in the world is black and white and we all need to sift through all the shit, to find what is valuable, good and just. By mixing church and state, the, "personal," part of religion is being eschewed and to keep everyone in line and indoctrinated, you need something, "bUlLeTpRoOf," that can unite everyone and cause them all to fall in line... and what's the common thing? The Bible. So how do you keep people indoctrinated? Use something meant to be a guide and to be taken contextually, as fact and to be taken literally and if you don't, "you don't belong," as you, "aren't following law." Anyways, I'm rambling a bit. I will say one thing though, there is no, "detailed guide," on how to keep slaves: there are little bits of info from Proverbs on how you should treat those who serve you, but I wouldn't say that there are, "detailed instructions." That's a bit hyperbolic.
07-22-2022, 06:53 PM
(07-22-2022, 04:00 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: If Jesus had a grave and his body was interred, he'd've spun 5 million times in the past 6 years alone. I'm a bit perplexed. You speak of God and Jesus in real terms, but in the post below, seem to suggest the Bible is purely man-made? Am I correct, or perhaps I'm misinterpreting your position? (07-22-2022, 06:08 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Absolutely correct on your part. Also, the Bible does indeed give instruction on how to buy foreign slaves, how long you can keep Jewish slaves, how much you can beat them before you're punished, that if you give your slave a wife he cannot take her or children with him if his time is up and he chooses to leave or how slaves can are considered property / inheritance and can be passed down to children? I'm quite sure you are aware of all these things.
07-22-2022, 08:06 PM
(07-22-2022, 06:53 PM)Lucidus Wrote: I'm a bit perplexed. You speak of God and Jesus in real terms, but in the post below, seem to suggest the Bible is purely man-made? Am I correct, or perhaps I'm misinterpreting your position? ... you ARE aware that Jesus was a real, terrestrial being, correct? Whether he actually did do a lot of what is said is of course, unproven (nor can it ever be proven), but the man existed. To deny the flesh of a creature on this Earth and confusing their supposed divinity with their actual existence, is a bit narrow-minded (not calling you that, just stating that the mentality is). If you're referring to my grave comment, I'm only going off of the fact that it has never been found, nor have his remains. I've always been under the assumption that the site and remains were absolutely known by those high enough in the Catholic hierarchy, but as was customary of the Catholic Church to destroy any bit of existing flesh, as to prohibit the creation of relics and such, the man's body will never be found. And where have I said God is real? Because I said that people have a personal relationship? How does that make someone real or not? Quote:]Also, the Bible does indeed give instruction on how to buy foreign slaves, how long you can keep Jewish slaves, how much you can beat them before you're punished, that if you give your slave a wife he cannot take her or children with him if his time is up and he chooses to leave or how slaves can are considered property / inheritance and can be passed down to children? I'm quite sure you are aware of all these things. lol that's your interpretation; I find it doesn't, "give instruction," I read it more as it is a re-telling of how things were at the time, not to mention that there is a direct contradiction: in the lines that talk about having slaves, it is also said that, "He who is found stealing a man and selling them for slavery, will be killed," (or something like that). I repeat: Constant. Paradoxes. And. Contradictions. Not. Black. And. White. FURTHERMORE!!! A lot of the, "slave," talk was more about a caste system, not unlike what India had for centuries. Yeah that's still not a good thing, but in 2022 (and decades beforehand), the entire world has known that slavery is a gross raping of human rights (well, except for many in the Southern US), thus it is easy (and recommended, of course), to simply ignore those select passages which are part of the many grey areas of the book. Again, not at all making judgements on what you have said, this is just my interpretation: I am interpreting your words and how you feel about the Bible, exactly how the American public takes them; literally, with no context (either historical or moral) and you are trying to make black and white out of something grey. Also, you're not being fair to the literal source material as well: when one describes something as, "detailed instructions," that reads as a point form, guide with a step by step, on how to do something. There is nothing of that sort in the pages. Again, it reads as a re-telling of how things were at the time, not that, "you must live your life according to these words." EDIT* A quick Google search found this excellent, 3rd party deep dive into the topic. Quite good, from the 3 minutes I've read thus far: https://emergencenj.org/blog/2019/01/04/does-the-bible-condone-slavery
07-22-2022, 09:15 PM
(07-22-2022, 08:06 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: ... you ARE aware that Jesus was a real, terrestrial being, correct? Whether he actually did do a lot of what is said is of course, unproven (nor can it ever be proven), but the man existed. To deny the flesh of a creature on this Earth and confusing their supposed divinity with their actual existence, is a bit narrow-minded (not calling you that, just stating that the mentality is). If you're referring to my grave comment, I'm only going off of the fact that it has never been found, nor have his remains. I've always been under the assumption that the site and remains were absolutely known by those high enough in the Catholic hierarchy, but as was customary of the Catholic Church to destroy any bit of existing flesh, as to prohibit the creation of relics and such, the man's body will never be found. There is no substantial proof that the Jesus character represented in the Bible actually existed -- divine or not. It's much more likely that "Jesus" was an amalgamation of the outspoken itinerant rabbis at that time. Quote:And where have I said God is real? Because I said that people have a personal relationship? How does that make someone real or not? Which is why I asked for clarification. Quote:FURTHERMORE!!! A lot of the, "slave," talk was more about a caste system, not unlike what India had for centuries. Yeah that's still not a good thing, but in 2022 (and decades beforehand), the entire world has known that slavery is a gross raping of human rights (well, except for many in the Southern US), thus it is easy (and recommended, of course), to simply ignore those select passages which are part of the many grey areas of the book. These aren't retellings of the time, they are literal guidelines / instructions: Leviticus 25:44-46 44 As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you. 45 You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their clans that are with you, who have been born in your land, and they may be your property. 46 You may bequeath them to your sons after you to inherit as a possession forever. You may make slaves of them, but over your brothers the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another ruthlessly. Exodus 21:20-21 20 “When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. 21 But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money. Exodus 21:2 2 When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. Exodus 21 21:1 “Now these are the rules that you shall set before them. 2 When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. 3 If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. 4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master’s, and he shall go out alone. 5 But if the slave plainly says, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,’ 6 then his master shall bring him to God, and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall bore his ear through with an awl, and he shall be his slave forever. 7 “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. 8 If she does not please her master, who has designated her for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed. He shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has broken faith with her. 9 If he designates her for his son, he shall deal with her as with a daughter. 10 If he takes another wife to himself, he shall not diminish her food, her clothing, or her marital rights. 11 And if he does not do these three things for her, she shall go out for nothing, without payment of money. It's all undeniably disgusting. There is no context that matters when it comes to owning other human beings as property.
07-23-2022, 10:19 AM
(07-22-2022, 09:15 PM)Lucidus Wrote: There is no substantial proof that the Jesus character represented in the Bible actually existed -- divine or not. It's much more likely that "Jesus" was an amalgamation of the outspoken itinerant rabbis at that time. Ooh, that's a doozy that I've never heard before! I'm not going to argue on this, as I don't know the other side (your POV) enough to debate on it, but from absolutely everything I have read, studied, looked at, etc., the guy existed. All of the Abrahamic religions write about him in some form, not to mention the Sikhs also write about him in their texts, as having visited the East in his travels before coming back to the Holy Land around his baptism and crucifixion. I don't know about the Buddhist and Hindu side of things, but a lot of his teachings (as told in the Bible) and mentality came from the Sikh/Hindu ways of acting and thinking. But yeah, an amalgamation of Rabbis and the like; that's a fascinating POV! (and I'm not being sarcastic either, it's something new!) Quote:These aren't retellings of the time, they are literal guidelines / instructions: As to your last line, absolutely; no human should have ownership over another. But you included Exodus in there; that is clearly a set of rules that were set out at the time, "by God," for Israelites only and it has nothing to do with Catholicism/Christianity and again, anyone with a modicum of common sense would just see it as an antiquated thing from its time and not to be taken into the modern day. I guess I should modify what I said, in that, "it is to be interpreted as a retelling of how things are and not to be used a guide, in modern day." That is a bit more accurate. I see where you're coming from 100%, but while Exodus 21 is a disturbing chapter, it's easy to overlook/ignore as quackery as it is an antiquated way of thinking/doing things; like Phrenology. A scientific book at the time of Phrenology's height may have other, apt and still scientifically-correct terms and facts, but it can include the outdated/antiquated, "science," as well. So yes, perhaps I was being a bit presumptuous/dismissive in my previous post and I apologise.
07-23-2022, 05:02 PM
(07-23-2022, 10:19 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Ooh, that's a doozy that I've never heard before! I think it likely there was a "real" Jesus, since he is mentioned by Josephus. But Lucidus is right about the "amalgam." Also we should probably take this a step further. Jesus' doctrines aren't simply an amalgam of already existing Jewish dissidence, but also and primarily attributions following later doctrinal developments, Greek inflected, and designed to combat heresy. That's where we get the Nicene Creed, for example. 
07-24-2022, 12:45 PM
(07-22-2022, 05:20 PM)Stewy Wrote: So the man who brought up an old cherry picked poll as his solid proof as to Trump's relevancy is now dismissing their value because he got caught by the tails of his own manipulations. LOL Ok. Welcome to my ignore list. You officially bring no value to these boards and I am done with you. the poll you called old was from like 3 weeks ago lol. and i posted another one thats even newer. yhis is why the left has no credibility. they totally ignore anf info they don't like and then use projection to acuse other people of cherry picking lol.
07-24-2022, 12:55 PM
(07-22-2022, 04:00 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Because the words you type are the very, "sin," that you are propagating that non-Trumpers, "live in." the cast you get your tail feathers so rattled by someone elses free speech and opinions is the problem. the left wants to silence anyone who thinks difernt than them and shut down any ideas that ain't in there super little box of whats ok. your post here is an example of what trump supporters have to deal with every dang day and why you only make us more determined. also dont bring up catholics to me and then pretend you got any moral highground over me. |
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