Trump on undocumented immigrants: 'These aren't people. These are animals.'

[*bfine32*]

(05-21-2018, 04:38 PM)GMDino Wrote: *snicker*



https://www.vox.com/2018/5/18/17368716/trump-animals-immigrants-illegal-ms-13


"context"

I think the fact that used Vox to support your claim says more about it than I possibly could. 

[GMDino]

(05-21-2018, 04:46 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I think the fact that used Vox to support your claim says more about it than I possibly could. 

I'm sure you could offer a detailed response and criticism of how they are wrong...but won't.

The article explains "context" beyond the two sentences before Trump says "animals".

I'd also reference you to my post before that one.

Thanks.

[fredtoast]

(05-21-2018, 04:46 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I think the fact that used Vox to support your claim says more about it than I possibly could. 

The fact that you did not even attempt to disagree with his claim tells me even more.

[fredtoast]

(05-21-2018, 04:28 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Changing the bold changed nothing. Can't speak for a Trump fan, but I don't see folks getting their panties in a bunch; however, I do see some folks letting their dislike cloud their rational thought. Luckily it's not to many, just mainly the empty cans. 

Read the transcript. The mayor REPEATEDLY mentions immigrants who are NOT ms-13 members.  The entire conversation was about illegal immigrants who are detained for any offense.  This could include failure to pay childsupport or even driving without a license.  That is why she has to point out that it is "possible" that one person in the group she is discussing could be a ms-13 member.


Only a hard core Trumpy would read it like this..."there might be a ms-13 member among that group of ms-13 members"

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(05-21-2018, 06:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Only a hard core Trumpy would read it like this..."there might be a ms-13 member among that group of ms-13 members"

A hard core Trump supporter like Matt?

[fredtoast]

(05-21-2018, 06:23 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: A hard core Trump supporter like Matt?

You are right. I apologize.

Either a hard core trumpy or a person who is confused.

[*bfine32*]

(05-21-2018, 05:56 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The fact that you did not even attempt to disagree with his claim tells me even more.

Vox is a left leaning opinion rag. I cannot disagree with the fact that they call it into question and provide their opinion; I just view CSPAN, the folks that were there and videoed the discussion to be more subjective.

There are currently 3 people (I'm going to add Dill, because he wasn't courteous enough to answer the direct question) in this forum that question whom Trump was referring to in his remarks. I expect nothing less from the 3 of you, but just know the majority realizes it is one more brick in the "who can you count on not to be rational in this forum wall".  

[Belsnickel]

(05-21-2018, 06:26 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You are right. I apologize.

Either a hard core trumpy or a person who is confused.

Yeah, not at all confused. Here is my take on what happened. Mims is talking about things and Trump is off in his own world. He's pretending to listen to her, but he really wasn't. We all know how this goes, and whatever the reason he had something else running through his mind while she was talking. He hears "MS-13" and that is what he keys in on. As Vox put it, he goes on this riff that is only tangentially related to the actual conversation at hand.

There is zero doubt to me that the "animals" comment was intended to be about MS-13 members and other violent criminals. I may have just laid out a scenario for which we have zero actual proof for, but it relies on as much proof as those saying the comments were about all immigrants. This is just the Occam's Razor situation of it all, that he went on a Trump ramble in which he isn't the most choosy with his words.

It doesn't mean he should've said what he did, or that we can't make fun of his inability to express himself in a coherent manner. However, the continued attempt to make his comments out to be anything other than he said they were is asinine.

Focusing on this type of shit is why the Democrats are having a tough time of things in the polls even though this should be a stellar year election-wise.

[*bfine32*]

(05-21-2018, 06:26 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You are right. I apologize.

Either a hard core trumpy or a person who is confused.

So CSPAN is a hard core Trumphy and/or confused? Luckily we have sits like Vox to tell it straight. 

[Dill]

(05-21-2018, 04:20 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Because members of MS 13 are ***** sapiens and he initially refers to them as such.

OK, no more respect from me. I have answered your question 2 while you have yet to answer the very simple question I posed to you. No more answers from me until you return the courtesy. 

Oh stop it. If you want to continue dialogue then do so. If you don't, it's not about "courtesy." It just means you can't answer. That's all.

I asked you why the shift to "people."

Rather than answer, you posed another question.

I answered your question "Given the demonstrative pronoun, I would say Person B is referring to MS13."

But Trump uses no demonstrative pronoun.

So I re-asked my question: Why the shift to "people?"  

If you can't answer, fine. But your question has been answered. Mine has not. No one has shown you "discourtesy."

[*bfine32*]

(05-21-2018, 07:18 PM)Dill Wrote: Oh stop it. If you want to continue dialogue then do so. If you don't, it's not about "courtesy." It just means you can't answer. That's all.

I asked you why the shift to "people.

Rather than answer, you posed another question.

I answered your question "Given the demonstrative pronoun, I would say Person B is referring to MS13."

But Trump uses no demonstrative pronoun.

So I re-asked my question: Why the shift to "people?"  

If you can't answer, fine. But no one has shown you "discourtesy."

Your question has been answered directly twice mine has been answered 0. The question you chose to answer was not asked directly to you as was the question you choose not to answer.

I suppose you could go with some pasteola and bold various sentences or you could answer the simple question posed. 

[Dill]

(05-21-2018, 04:46 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I think the fact that used Vox to support your claim says more about it than I possibly could. 

You want people to analyze Trump's statements in context.

But if someone uses an article from Vox no one really needs to assess the argument on its merits.
That it's Vox says all.

[GMDino]

(05-21-2018, 07:08 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Yeah, not at all confused. Here is my take on what happened. Mims is talking about things and Trump is off in his own world. He's pretending to listen to her, but he really wasn't. We all know how this goes, and whatever the reason he had something else running through his mind while she was talking. He hears "MS-13" and that is what he keys in on. As Vox put it, he goes on this riff that is only tangentially related to the actual conversation at hand.

There is zero doubt to me that the "animals" comment was intended to be about MS-13 members and other violent criminals. I may have just laid out a scenario for which we have zero actual proof for, but it relies on as much proof as those saying the comments were about all immigrants. This is just the Occam's Razor situation of it all, that he went on a Trump ramble in which he isn't the most choosy with his words.

It doesn't mean he should've said what he did, or that we can't make fun of his inability to express himself in a coherent manner. However, the continued attempt to make his comments out to be anything other than he said they were is asinine.

Focusing on this type of shit is why the Democrats are having a tough time of things in the polls even though this should be a stellar year election-wise.

Which is why I only engage in such mentalmasturbation here and not in real life.

As has been shown what Trump says and what means isn't always the same.

And Trump's past statements are fair game, correct?  

Either way it's a fun experiment in how to take a sentence in context and STILL have more than one possible explanation of what was "meant".

As I said it is also a byproduct of his inability to speak coherently or listen when spoken to.

To me, it's fun.  But then I don't take it personally if someone disagrees.

[Dill]

(05-21-2018, 07:22 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Your question has been answered directly twice mine has been answered 0. The question you chose to answer was not asked directly to you as was the question you choose not to answer.

I suppose you could go with some pasteola and bold various sentences or you could answer the simple question posed. 

My mistake. I thought thought the Person A Person B question was for me.

Is this what you are calling an answer to my question about the shift in reference to "people"?

Because members of MS 13 are ***** sapiens and he initially refers to them as such.

That's not an answer which exonerates him from the charge of unclarity at least.

[*bfine32*]

(05-21-2018, 07:47 PM)Dill Wrote: My mistake. I thought thought the Person A Person B question was for me.

Is this what you are calling an answer to my question about the shift in reference to "people"?

Because members of MS 13 are ***** sapiens and he initially refers to them as such.

That's not an answer which exonerates him from the charge of unclarity at least.

I see you have asked yet another question without answering the simple direct question posed to you. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(05-21-2018, 07:28 PM)Dill Wrote: You want people to analyze Trump's statements in context.

But if someone uses an article from Vox no one really needs to assess the argument on its merits.
That it's Vox says all.

Because no one has ever made similar comments about a certain poster citing The Dailywire, right?

[GMDino]

Posters can claim any wild thing they want with no sources or citations.  They can claim opinion is fact.  Hell, they can copy and paste direct quotes and claim they are their own with no reference to the source...


...but heaven forbid they not "answer a question" exactly as asked.

[BmorePat87]

This thread wouldn't be 4 pages long if he didn't have a history of saying derogatory things about whole groups of persons of color while also failing to call out white supremacists chanting Nazi slogans.

But it also wouldn't be 4 pages long if we were a bit honest in who he was talking about (gang members).

Let's focus on the real shit going on, like these Trump Jr meetings and and the hush money to porn stars that likely violated campaign finance laws.

[Belsnickel]

(05-21-2018, 08:13 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Let's focus on the real shit going on, like these Trump Jr meetings and and the hush money to porn stars that likely violated campaign finance laws.

Hell, while all of that is bad, I'd rather be focusing on the dismantling of the State Department; the politicization of the DoJ; the foxes running the hen houses at the EPA, CFPB, and other agencies; Bolton, who was unable to be confirmed by a Republican Senate because of concerns over his oversight of intelligence as the NSA. The Trump Jr meetings, let Mueller do his thing. The Cohen stuff, let the SDNY do their thing. These things that are signs of an unhealthy government are things that should receive Congressional oversight, but our elected officials have been asleep at the wheel. We need to be talking about those issues to wake them up or change drivers.

/rant

[*bfine32*]

(05-21-2018, 08:13 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: This thread wouldn't be 4 pages long if he didn't have a history of saying derogatory things about whole groups of persons of color while also failing to call out white supremacists chanting Nazi slogans.

But it also wouldn't be 4 pages long if we were a bit honest in who he was talking about (gang members).

Let's focus on the real shit going on, like these Trump Jr meetings and and the hush money to porn stars that likely violated campaign finance laws.

Folks like the OP play right into the hands of extreme right wingers. They love it and left leaners should be more upset with threads such as this than anyone who ever supported Trump. Matt has already displayed his dissatisfaction. 

As I have said for the last year, this is just more of the Boy who cried wolf. It weakens the left and strengthens the right in the public opinion. It is why I am willing to entertain it for so long. 

As to issues at hand, of course we should focus on them. For instance Trump has demanded a probe into the FBI and/DOJ infiltrating his campaign on the order of the Obama administration. Instead  of talking about that we are "discussing" an obvious misrepresentation.