Trump talks the talk, but Biden walks the walk

[GMDino]

(04-05-2019, 06:02 PM)bfine32 Wrote: No arbitration. Just my opinion.

Well we know what opinions are like...

Or so "they " say.  

[*bfine32*]

(04-05-2019, 09:45 PM)GMDino Wrote: At least one had a legitimate health issue.

But hey...anything to defend Trump make Trump looks less bad.  Airight?!?! 

I served with lots of folks that had asthma; especially those that had it at a younger age. But actually it was in reply to an attempt of "anything to make Trump look worse". But you most likely missed that; didn't ya? 

Biden has no morale high ground over Trump when it comes to Military service. 

[Dill]

(04-05-2019, 02:48 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: and just like that he does this

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/437582-biden-im-not-sorry-for-anything-that-i-have-ever-done?fbclid=IwAR3je-ixdJmJqy671N87hLifyZHe2U7R2qQjL6VOXjilEEZnPPNaAmDcmYs&fbclid=IwAR0zJo5ij32l4uxtpmXMTJHUnjm7XwdK-wG_MKI-5AWqtS2laLadOysBcgg

“The fact of the matter is I made it clear that if I made anyone feel [uncomfortable], I feel badly about that. It was never my intention. Ever."

"I’m sorry I didn’t understand more. I’m not sorry for any of my intentions. I’m not sorry for anything that I have ever done. I have never been disrespectful intentionally to a man or a woman. So that’s not the reputation I’ve had since I was in high school, for God’s sakes."


“It was not my intent to make light of anyone’s discomfort. I realize my responsibility is to not invade the space of anyone who is uncomfortable.”


What an awful, awful response. Even if your intent isn't to disrespect/make people feel uncomfortable, apologize and say you are sorry for those actions because, intent aside, the actions caused a very understandable response in a number of people. 

One clear statement of actual intentions, then one clear apology. One statement of recognition times are changing. All at one time. Then done for good. Get to your message.

Never do this: "I'm sorry that . . .I"m sorry that . . . .  I'm sorry that . . . BUT . . . I'm not sorry that . . . I'm not sorry that . . ."  

[*bfine32*]

(04-05-2019, 10:01 PM)Dill Wrote: One clear statement of actual intentions, then one clear apology. One statement of recognition times are changing. All at one time. Then done for good. Get to your message.

Never do this: "I'm sorry that . . .I"m sorry that . . . .  I'm sorry that . . . BUT . . . I'm not sorry that . . . I'm not sorry that . . ."  

Dill, what has happened to you!?!?!

[Benton]

(04-05-2019, 09:34 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Yeah, I think we get too caught up in the Bones Spurs narrative. Lots of folks of privilege got deferred from service in Vietnam. I hope throughout his life whenever McCain looked at them, they felt a sense of shame.    

Agreed. Privileged (and not so privileged) kids on both sides doged the draft and tried to shirk their duty. 

I did have respect for McCain, bush, Kerry and others who served. I don't know if it made them better statesmen, but I think maybe they valued it more.

[GMDino]

(04-05-2019, 09:58 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I served with lots of folks that had asthma; especially those that had it at a younger age. But actually it was in reply to an attempt of "anything to make Trump look worse". But you most likely missed that; didn't ya? 

Biden has no morale high ground over Trump when it comes to Military service. 

Did Biden ever claim he knows more than the Generals?

Did Biden ever claim he like soldiers that weren't captured?

Did Biden ever say avoiding STD's was his own Vietnam?

Both got deferments.  Granted.

One claims he's better than the ones who served.

So yeah, Biden does have the moral high ground...IMHO.

I'm sure that's not going to inspire another non-defense of DJT.  

[Benton]

(04-05-2019, 09:58 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Biden has no morale high ground over Trump when it comes to Military service. 

Biden did not serve. As fair as I know, he hasn't mocked those who did .  

I didn't serve, but I'd find it hard to follow a cic who openly mocks war heros. 

[*bfine32*]

(04-05-2019, 11:47 PM)GMDino Wrote: Did Biden ever claim he knows more than the Generals?

Did Biden ever claim he like soldiers that weren't captured?

Did Biden ever say avoiding STD's was his own Vietnam?

Both got deferments.  Granted.

One claims he's better than the ones who served.

So yeah, Biden does have the moral high ground...IMHO.

I'm sure that's not going to inspire another non-defense of DJT.  

(04-05-2019, 11:55 PM)Benton Wrote: Biden did not serve. As fair as I know, he hasn't mocked those who did .  

I didn't serve, but I'd find it hard to follow a cic who openly mocks war heros. 

Guess you both kinda missed what a wrote. Biden has no high ground when it comes to Military Service. But don't let what I actually typed stop you. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(04-05-2019, 07:13 PM)bfine32 Wrote: But what if Biden's asthma kicked in during the bout?


https://911familiesforamerica.org/did-joe-biden-dodge-the-military-draft-after-bloody-tet-offensive/

I'm gonna let you in on a secret.  Heel spurs aren't even disqualifying for military service.  Hell, 80% of heel spurs don't even cause any symptoms.  The spurs aren't even the cause of the pain, but rather the result of a condition neither Trump nor his minions have bothered to Google so he can get his lie straight.  If patients do have this medical condition Trump has never mentioned by name it's only temporarily disqualifying until the pain has resolved which usually occurs in a few weeks to a few months.

Whereas asthma can be medically disqualifying for military service based upon its severity and can be objectively measured with spirometry.   So if Biden did lie at least he got the name of the condition right. Trump can't even tell a decent lie about dodging the draft.

While I can think of at least three soldiers who may have died of asthma related complications from heavy smoke inhalation during training, I'm unaware of a single soldier who ever died of plantar fasciitis.

[*bfine32*]

(04-06-2019, 01:21 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Guess you both kinda missed what a wrote. Biden has no high ground when it comes to Military Service. But don't let what I actually typed stop you. 

(04-23-2019, 06:18 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I'm gonna let you in on a secret.  Heel spurs aren't even disqualifying for military service.  Hell, 80% of heel spurs don't even cause any symptoms.  The spurs aren't even the cause of the pain, but rather the result of a condition neither Trump nor his minions have bothered to Google so he can get his lie straight.  If patients do have this medical condition Trump has never mentioned by name it's only temporarily disqualifying until the pain has resolved which usually occurs in a few weeks to a few months.

Whereas asthma can be medically disqualifying for military service based upon its severity and can be objectively measured with spirometry.   So if Biden did lie at least he got the name of the condition right. Trump can't even tell a decent lie about dodging the draft.

While I can think of at least three soldiers who may have died of asthma related complications from heavy smoke inhalation during training, I'm unaware of a single soldier who ever died of plantar fasciitis.

Perhaps the number now stands at 3. Trump and Biden are both examples of the privileged that avoided the draft  while those less fortunate went and died for their ability to do so. Neither gets to claim moral high ground even if Biden did pick a cooler malady. 

You don't have to explain the dangers of asthma to me and you examples are of honorable men/women that chose to serve instead of looking for ways to avoid it. 

When I was a PLDC instructor early in my career I was certain asthma was going to be the root of a sexual harassment charge against SGT bfine.  A girl who had asthma had been instructed to keep her inhaler in her right breast pocket. On a ruck march she goes down, SGT bfine springs into action to action and goes for the inhaler. Long story short: I was aggressive in my attempts to retrieve this inhaler; as I could not locate it. Then a roommate approaches and says she had given it to her to hold.   

Also welcome back. See you on the battlefield. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(04-23-2019, 07:08 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Perhaps the number now stands at 3. Trump and Biden are both examples of the privileged that avoided the draft  while those less fortunate went and died for their ability to do so. Neither gets to claim moral high ground even if Biden did pick a cooler malady. 

You don't have to explain the dangers of asthma to me and you examples are of honorable men/women that chose to serve instead of looking for ways to avoid it. 

When I was a PLDC instructor early in my career I was certain asthma was going to be the root of a sexual harassment charge against SGT bfine.  A girl who had asthma had been instructed to keep her inhaler in her right breast pocket. On a ruck march she goes down, SGT bfine springs into action to action and goes for the inhaler. Long story short: I was aggressive in my attempts to retrieve this inhaler; as I could not locate it. Then a roommate approaches and says she had given it to her to hold.   

Also welcome back. See you on the battlefield. 

I think you will need to reset your counter because I didn't mention their military service. If Biden picked an actual diagnosis which is disqualifying for military service, how did he get the spirometer and the methacholine challenge to fake the results consistent with small airway obstruction?

[*bfine32*]

(04-23-2019, 09:51 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I think you will need to reset your counter because I didn't  mention their military service.  If Biden picked an actual diagnosis which is disqualifying for military service, how did he get the spirometer and the methacholine challenge to fake the results consistent with small airway obstruction?

Of course you didn't mention their Military Service and thereby missed the point (I'll leave the counter at 3). Biden got 5 deferments and then receives a deferment at the age of 25 because of a diagnoses of asthma as a teenager. Defend him if you want, but I will not defend him nor Trump in their military service regardless which one you state 50 years later had the "better" deferment. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(04-23-2019, 11:43 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Of course you didn't mention their Military Service and thereby missed the point (I'll leave the counter at 3). Biden got 5 deferments and then receives a deferment at the age of 25 because of a diagnoses of asthma as a teenager. Defend him if you want, but I will not defend him nor Trump in their military service regardless which one you state 50 years later had the "better" deferment. 

1.  No one here has made the claim one is morally superior to the other based upon their military service.  You have repeatedly told us that Biden doesn't have the moral high ground when it comes to military "service," but (again) no one has made that claim you keep denying.

2. I haven't defend Biden.  I've educated you asthma can be a disqualifying medical condition for military service whereas heel spurs are not.  The actual condition which can be disqualifying is plantar fasciitis.  But, fortunately for many seeking to join the military plantar fasciitis is only temporarily disqualifying until the pain is gone.  Then they are able to join provided they qualify otherwise.

3.  I didn't claim either had a better deferment.  I stated one condition can be disqualifying and one isn't.

4. Thank Thor you're not going to defend Trump and his alleged heel spurs which aren't disqualifying for military service by emphasizing his nonexistent "service" repeatedly. But, when it comes to defending Trump for lying about the reason for the medical deferment you're doing an average job of obfuscation with your "service" smoke screen.

Just so you don't claim I missed the point again, I'll summarize.  No one has claimed Trump or Biden has the moral high ground based upon military service neither has.  You read that part, yes?  Neither has military service thus neither can have the moral high ground regarding military service.  Yes, yes, yes; we all understand.  However, no one made that claim you keep denying.  We got it already!  The moral high ground to be had would be if one was a draft dodger claiming to have a medical condition which isn't disqualifying while the other actually had a legitimate medical deferment due to an actual medical condition which can be detected with objective measurements using spirometry and a methacholine challenge and a well document medical record indicating the individual had a medical condition since he were a teenager in high school and as an adult decades later.  But, thank Thor, you've already stated you won't defend whether a medical condition which isn't disqualifying is better or worse than a medical condition which actually is disqualifying.


Therefore, there is no need for you to comment further.

[BmorePat87]

(04-23-2019, 11:43 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Of course you didn't mention their Military Service and thereby missed the point (I'll leave the counter at 3). Biden got 5 deferments and then receives a deferment at the age of 25 because of a diagnoses of asthma as a teenager. Defend him if you want, but I will not defend him nor Trump in their military service regardless which one you state 50 years later had the "better" deferment. 

This makes absolutely no sense. You were the one who inserted Biden's asthma deferments in response to mockery over Trump's heel spur deferments and then threw in the phrase "military service" a few posts later during the deferment discussion. 

When people moved away from deferments and brought up Trump's history of mocking people who served in the military, you said that had nothing to do with military service.

Now someone is directly responding to your post about the asthma deferment, which came prior to you tying deferments to "military service", and you're complaining that they are "missing the point" because they... directly responded to your post.

So either you intended to tie deferments to military service or your random interjection of the phrase "military service" was an attempt to move away from talks of deferments during the middle of you responding to talks of deferment. 

Pick one so we know "what the point is" because I'm not sure how many more times we can keep responding to what you actually write and have to get corrected as to what you meant to write, especially considering how this garbage thread started.

[*bfine32*]

(04-24-2019, 01:04 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: 1.  No one here has made the claim one is morally superior to the other based upon their military service.  You have repeatedly told us that Biden doesn't have the moral high ground when it comes to military "service," but (again) no one has made that claim you keep denying.

2. I haven't defend Biden.  I've educated you asthma can be a disqualifying medical condition for military service whereas heel spurs are not.  The actual condition which can be disqualifying is plantar fasciitis.  But, fortunately for many seeking to join the military plantar fasciitis is only temporarily disqualifying until the pain is gone.  Then they are able to join provided they qualify otherwise.

3.  I didn't claim either had a better deferment.  I stated one condition can be disqualifying and one isn't.

4. Thank Thor you're not going to defend Trump and his alleged heel spurs which aren't disqualifying for military service by emphasizing his nonexistent "service" repeatedly. But, when it comes to defending Trump for lying about the reason for the medical deferment you're doing an average job of obfuscation with your "service" smoke screen.

Just so you don't claim I missed the point again, I'll summarize.  No one has claimed Trump or Biden has the moral high ground based upon military service neither has.  You read that part, yes?  Neither has military service thus neither can have the moral high ground regarding military service.  Yes, yes, yes; we all understand.  However, no one made that claim you keep denying.  We got it already!  The moral high ground to be had would be if one was a draft dodger claiming to have a medical condition which isn't disqualifying while the other actually had a legitimate medical deferment due to an actual medical condition which can be detected with objective measurements using spirometry and a methacholine challenge and a well document medical record indicating the individual had a medical condition since he were a teenager in high school and as an adult decades later.  But, thank Thor, you've already stated you won't defend whether a medical condition which isn't disqualifying is better or worse than a medical condition which actually is disqualifying.


Therefore, there is no need for you to comment further.

(04-24-2019, 08:19 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: This makes absolutely no sense. You were the one who inserted Biden's asthma deferments in response to mockery over Trump's heel spur deferments and then threw in the phrase "military service" a few posts later during the deferment discussion. 

When people moved away from deferments and brought up Trump's history of mocking people who served in the military, you said that had nothing to do with military service.

Now someone is directly responding to your post about the asthma deferment, which came prior to you tying deferments to "military service", and you're complaining that they are "missing the point" because they... directly responded to your post.

So either you intended to tie deferments to military service or your random interjection of the phrase "military service" was an attempt to move away from talks of deferments during the middle of you responding to talks of deferment. 

Pick one so we know "what the point is" because I'm not sure how many more times we can keep responding to what you actually write and have to get corrected as to what you meant to write, especially considering how this garbage thread started.

First thanks to Breech for bumping a 2 month old thread to "give me a lesson on Asthma". I will forward his finding the the Command Surgeon. But as to someone claiming High Ground I consider that giving the benefit to/ making excuses for Biden on deferment from Military Service because his malady was "legit" and diagnosed 8 years ago; perhaps the 2 of you differ on that assumption. I can't speak to the DODMERB process in 1968 perhaps Breech can, but I do know they classified both as unfit for service. But it's really nor germane to the situation.

So when someone says Biden's was legit and Trump's was not. I'm going to call BS, they both got deferments because of privilege and neither can take moral high ground on Military service. But hell, it gives us something else to argue about.

I agree with Matt on how the "garbage thread' started. The OP clearly explained the reason for the title in post #3, but the "loves to bytch" were not having any part or any useless explanation because after all they had a title to refer to. I'll bet they love book covers.

[BmorePat87]

(04-24-2019, 04:49 PM)bfine32 Wrote: First thanks to Breech for bumping a 2 month old thread to "give me a lesson on Asthma". I will forward his finding the the Command Surgeon. But as to someone claiming High Ground I consider that giving the benefit to/ making excuses for Biden on deferment from Military Service because his malady was "legit" and diagnosed 8 years ago; perhaps the 2 of you differ on that assumption. I can't speak to the DODMERB process in 1968 perhaps Breech can, but I do know they classified both as unfit for service. But it's really nor germane to the situation.

So when someone says Biden's was legit and Trump's was not. I'm going to call BS, they both got deferments because of privilege and neither can take moral high ground on Military service. But hell, it gives us something else to argue about.

I agree with Matt on how the "garbage thread' started. The OP clearly explained the reason for the title in post #3, but the "loves to bytch" were not having any part or any useless explanation because after all they had a title to refer to. I'll bet they love book covers.

"I was wrong" would have been easier for you to type than all of this 

[*bfine32*]

(04-24-2019, 06:02 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: "I was wrong" would have been easier for you to type than all of this 

"Pat was wrong"

You're right: That was easier. 

[BmorePat87]

(04-24-2019, 06:10 PM)bfine32 Wrote: "Pat was wrong"

You're right: That was easier. 

My students act sophomoric too when I call them out. I guess we're done here.

[*bfine32*]

(04-24-2019, 06:18 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: My students act sophomoric too when I call them out. I guess we're done here.

As long as you pat yourself on the back in all cases when you look in the mirror and state "I called them out". 

But yeah, being done is best. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(04-24-2019, 04:49 PM)bfine32 Wrote: First thanks to Breech for bumping a 2 month old thread to "give me a lesson on Asthma". I will forward his finding the the Command Surgeon. But as to someone claiming High Ground I consider that giving the benefit to/ making excuses for Biden on deferment from Military Service because his malady was "legit" and diagnosed 8 years ago; perhaps the 2 of you differ on that assumption. I can't speak to the DODMERB process in 1968 perhaps Breech can, but I do know they classified both as unfit for service. But it's really nor germane to the situation.

So when someone says Biden's was legit and Trump's was not. I'm going to call BS, they both got deferments because of privilege and neither can take moral high ground on Military service. But hell, it gives us something else to argue about.

I agree with Matt on how the "garbage thread' started. The OP clearly explained the reason for the title in post #3, but the "loves to bytch" were not having any part or any useless explanation because after all they had a title to refer to. I'll bet they love book covers.

Before I bumped a "2 month old thread" yesterday, you were the last to reply on 4/6/19 or 17 days prior.

In addition to informing you that heels spurs aren't a disqualifying condition, you may be shocked to learn a month actually consists of 28, 29, 30, or 31 days. Not 8 or 9 days. So two months would be approximately 60 days, not 17.

There is a difference between stating Trump's deferment wasn't legit and correctly stating heel spurs aren't disqualifying, but plantar fasciitis is. Similarly, there is a difference between stating Biden's deferment was legit and correctly stating asthma can be disqualifying. I stated facts based upon AR 40-501. You determined whose deferment was and wasn't legit. Not me. Funny how your subconscious automatically assumed Biden's was legit while Trump's wasn't based upon the information I gave you. Interesting.

I was going to ask how you concluded the standards of medical fitness for military service aren't germane to military medical deferments based upon the standards of medical fitness, but . . . naaaaaaaaah. You've got enough on your plate with days vs. months.

Again, no one has suggested Biden has the moral high ground compared to Trump when it comes to military service because neither has any military service. It is clear you keep brining this up to focus on their service rather than discuss their behavior towards service members and their families.

PS Is Command Surgeon your final answer? Because if you want to use your phone a friend life line, I'd go with Surgeon General. Final answer. Lock it in.

PPS Can you tell me who the DODMERB is and what they do?