Which Prison should a transgender be sentenced?

[fredtoast]

True story. A few years ago I was working in a small rural area in Tennessee and the local jail (Grainger County) had a biological woman in the men's section for a long time before they realized it.

[SteelCitySouth]

(04-07-2016, 04:42 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I do not, but their are those that do. You go to the facility that fits your biological make up.

From your given answer early. This is one of the few things we agree on.

Well that's not what Fred said in his original post....so you two do not agree.

[*michaelsean*]

(04-07-2016, 04:43 PM)fredtoast Wrote: True story.  A few years ago I was working in a small rural area in Tennessee and the local jail (Grainger County) had a biological woman in the men's section for a long time before they realized it.

I once did a tour of Hamilton County jail.  I can believe it.  Apparently hotties don't commit a lot of crime.

[*bfine32*]

(04-07-2016, 04:44 PM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: Well that's not what Fred said in his original post....so you two do not agree.

So much for trying to extend an Olive Branch. I assumed Fred was implying the homosexual identified as a male, because he called him such. I was merely pointing out that we both thought he should go to the prison with the little boy pee pees.


FWIW, I think more folks answer for Fred than anyone else on this boiard.

[Belsnickel]

(04-07-2016, 04:12 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I edited the OP to hopefully better define the answer and get some straight answers. I do think Fred and Matt have given straight answers.

Which I, of course, screwed up in my typing of.

[fredtoast]

I know that Chelsea Manning, nee Bradley Manning, is now receiving hormone therapy, but is still being housed in a male prison facility.

I also know some non-military prisons provide psychological treatment and even hormone therapy for inmates with GD, but as far as I know they are still house based on their biological classification.

[6andcounting]

Where's the "This is technically a non-issue because all transgenders should be sentenced to death anyway" option?

[Benton]

Boy parts, boy prison. Girl parts, girl prison. Some of column a, some of column b? Then it goes to where you identify. But I'm guessing hermaphrodite offenders aren't super common.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-07-2016, 04:46 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I once did a tour of Hamilton County jail.  I can believe it.  Apparently hotties don't commit a lot of crime.

Oh, they do.  They just get away with it, under the guise of divorce court.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(04-07-2016, 03:36 PM)GMDino Wrote: I'd agree with this.

If a man has already gone under the knife I'd think they have to go with the female prison (in this example). And the same with a woman who is post op going to the men's.

It would be a very tough call.

A man who identifies as a woman would be in all kinds of trouble in a male population, I'd think.

A smaller guy or a naturally more effeminate guy is in all kinds of trouble in a male prison.  You're going to a place populated largely by predatory and aggressive men.  I do agree with your general point, if you're pre-op you go to the prison of the gender you were born as.  Post-op you don't.  But likelihood of victimisation isn't really a factor otherwise you open up a huge can of worms.

[GMDino]

(04-08-2016, 11:04 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: A smaller guy or a naturally more effeminate guy is in all kinds of trouble in a male prison.  You're going to a place populated largely by predatory and aggressive men.  I do agree with your general point, if you're pre-op you go to the prison of the gender you were born as.  Post-op you don't.  But likelihood of victimisation isn't really a factor otherwise you open up a huge can of worms.

Agreed.  That's kind of what I was going for.  Whether they are truly trans or not if they appear that way they are more likely to have trouble.  

[*Nately120*]

Transgender criminals should all be sent to my sex dungeon.

[Sovereign Nation]

(04-07-2016, 04:35 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: I'll go in this direction as well, but with the caveat that it's the bits and pieces in place at the time of the offense.  Meaning one couldn't have gender reassignment surgery in an effort to avoid going to male penitentiary.  (I highly doubt any female would 'fake' this and be reassigned in order to go to a male prison) 

Interesting that you would make this distinction as it opens up all kinds of possibilities.

Are you saying that men and women ARE in fact different in the way we think?  If so then there is more to being a man and woman than biological aspects.  Since we obviously think differently as well.  If not, then gender is just a social construct and this statement is false.

[*PhilHos*]

This is the problem with America. We take a problem and the proposed solution(s) only exacerbate the problem and/or cause new ones. Especially when the solution is so simple.

Here's how you solve the transgender issues: whatever private parts you have, that's where you go. Got a penis? Go to the "Men's" Room. Got a vagina? Go to the "Ladies'" Room.

But, Phil, what if they have both or neither? They can use whichever one makes them more comfortable.

Ok, but what if, WHAT IF, I've got a penis, but I look, sound, act like and identify as a woman, what then? You've got a penis, so you go to the Men's Room. If the "guys" in there make you uncomfortable, show them your penis and make THEM uncomfortable. Boom. Simple.

And this applies for prisons or any other situation as well.

[GMDino]

(04-08-2016, 12:42 PM)PhilHos Wrote: This is the problem with America. We take a problem and the proposed solution(s) only exacerbate the problem and/or cause new ones. Especially when the solution is so simple.

Here's how you solve the transgender issues: whatever private parts you have, that's where you go. Got a penis? Go to the "Men's" Room. Got a vagina? Go to the "Ladies'" Room.

But, Phil, what if they have both or neither? They can use whichever one makes them more comfortable.

Ok, but what if, WHAT IF, I've got a penis, but I look, sound, act like and identify as a woman, what then? You've got a penis, so you go to the Men's Room. If the "guys" in there make you uncomfortable, show them your penis and make THEM uncomfortable. Boom. Simple.

And this applies for prisons or any other situation as well.

So what happens when this guy walks into the ladies room?



Think he will feel odd, or your wife and daughter will?

It is not a black/white, yes/no, situation.

Best answer is a third option or a uni-bathroom.

Actually the best option is to stop trying to legislate away something that never happened(trans-people attacking others in a bathroom) and stop looking at everyone in the bathroom.

But that can't happen because some people just don't like people that are different from them.

[*PhilHos*]

(04-08-2016, 12:48 PM)GMDino Wrote: So what happens when this guy walks into the ladies room?



Think he will feel odd, or your wife and daughter will?

Does "he" have a vagina? If so, he uses the "Ladies" Room. I'm sure my wife and daughters would be uncomfortable, but if "he" went in and just used the restroom, then nothing will happen. This probably will come as a shock to you, but people routinely use the wrong restroom all the time (for variety of reasons, from being drunk, to not paying attention/being in a hurry) and in most cases, nothing happens to anyone except for slight embarrasment or slight confusion.

But, if "he's" that uncomfortable using the "Ladies'" Room then he should just get the surgery done so he can.

GMDino Wrote:It is not a black/white, yes/no, situation.

It's not, but it should be.

GMDino Wrote:Best answer is a third option or a uni-bathroom.

While there's nothing wrong with having a "uni-bathroom", the best answer is if the restrooms are for multiple people, use the one that fits your private parts. However, considering that most of the public restrooms in my neck of the woods aren't really designed for more than one person, the best answer, IMO, is to just make ALL public restrooms single-use "uni-bathrooms".

GMDino Wrote:Actually the best option is to stop trying to legislate away something that never happened(trans-people attacking others in a bathroom) and stop looking at everyone in the bathroom.

It's not about trans-people attacking others in the bathroom. It's about sickos taking advantage of the opportunity to attack others in the bathroom (i.e. a male rapist in the Ladie's Room)

GMDino Wrote:But that can't happen because some people just don't like people that are different from them.

Actually, because people care only about themselves and not about other people (you can take that however you want, but I've found that that is true for pretty much any group of people; "your" side and "my" side included).

If people truly cared about other people, then an issue like what bathroom to use would come down to "how can I make those around me the least uncomfortable?" and then doing THAT (And that goes for everyone on this issue).

[Belsnickel]

There was something that crossed my RSS feed related to higher education about a school somewhere recently that decided to just do away with "men's and women's" rooms. They replaced all of the signs to indicate whether a bathroom had urinals or not, and left it at that.

Here is the story from the Guardian: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/29/gender-bathrooms-cooper-union-college-new-york?

Now, per the NC law, this would not be allowable there, and UNC will actually have to make some changes to how they have things as they currently have some gender neutral facilities that will be non-compliant with the new law. But I'm curious about opinions on this sort of thing.

[*Nately120*]

(04-08-2016, 12:48 PM)GMDino Wrote: So what happens when this guy walks into the ladies room?



Think he will feel odd, or your wife and daughter will?

It is not a black/white, yes/no, situation.

Best answer is a third option or a uni-bathroom.

Actually the best option is to stop trying to legislate away something that never happened(trans-people attacking others in a bathroom) and stop looking at everyone in the bathroom.

But that can't happen because some people just don't like people that are different from them.

I didn't quite get this...are women supposed to be afraid of this guy?  Is he a criminal or a sex offender or a rapist or something?  Does a law against men in a womens room magically stop rapists from walking in there?

Can't women carry guns in NC?  Ok, so if he tries anything funny I guess the women can defend themselves to the extent of the law, too.  Ida know, I think this country is way too afraid of genitals and is far too quick to read some sort of sinister purpose into them.

I mean, your wife and daughter are around penises all day...it's just that there are two layers of thin cloth between your daughter and that penis that makes you feel socially safe.  That's the scary truth, folks...men with penises are around your wives and daughters all day every day, so I don't see why the concept of a man with a penis being in a stall with a (probably) closed door near your wife/daughter is so much crazier. The clothing between a man's penis and your wife/daughter is like a velvet rope at a movie theater. It doesn't stop anyone from doing anything, but it is merely symbolic.

Penises don't rape people, people rape people.

[GMDino]

(04-08-2016, 01:06 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Does "he" have a vagina? If so, he uses the "Ladies" Room. I'm sure my wife and daughters would be uncomfortable, but if "he" went in and just used the restroom, then nothing will happen. This probably will come as a shock to you, but people routinely use the wrong restroom all the time (for variety of reasons, from being drunk, to not paying attention/being in a hurry) and in most cases, nothing happens to anyone except for slight embarrasment or slight confusion.

But, if "he's" that uncomfortable using the "Ladies'" Room then he should just get the surgery done so he can.

And if he looks like a man and uses the stall in the men's room should the men just let him?

I've seen people use the "wrong" restroom...that's why I think this whole idea of a "bathroom bill" is stupid and a waste of time and money.

(04-08-2016, 01:06 PM)PhilHos Wrote: While there's nothing wrong with having a "uni-bathroom", the best answer is if the restrooms are for multiple people, use the one that fits your private parts. However, considering that most of the public restrooms in my neck of the woods aren't really designed for more than one person, the best answer, IMO, is to just make ALL public restrooms single-use "uni-bathrooms".

Yep

(04-08-2016, 01:06 PM)PhilHos Wrote: It's not about trans-people attacking others in the bathroom. It's about sickos taking advantage of the opportunity to attack others in the bathroom (i.e. a male rapist in the Ladie's Room)

So then why pass a new law? Like sickos won't just take advantage unless they can pretend to be trans?

As I said, stupid and a waste of time and money.

(04-08-2016, 01:06 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Actually, because people care only about themselves and not about other people (you can take that however you want, but I've found that that is true for pretty much any group of people; "your" side and "my" side included).

If people truly cared about other people, then an issue like what bathroom to use would come down to "how can I make those around me the least uncomfortable?" and then doing THAT (And that goes for everyone on this issue).

I know people hate "others"....I want them to stop that.

However, again, if the guy pictured above walked into the ladies room how does that make anyone less uncomfortable?

[*bfine32*]

(04-08-2016, 02:16 PM)GMDino Wrote: And if he looks like a man and uses the stall in the men's room should the men just let him?

I've seen people use the "wrong" restroom...that's why I think this whole idea of a "bathroom bill" is stupid and a waste of time and money.





Yep



So then why pass a new law? Like sickos won't just take advantage unless they can pretend to be trans?

As I said, stupid and a waste of time and money.



I know people hate "others"....I want them to stop that.

However, again, if the guy pictured above walked into the ladies room how does that make anyone less uncomfortable?

If you are talking about the NC bathroom law; wasn't it written in response to local ordinances written? If that is correct then who initiated the waste of time and money?