PnR Decorum and suspensions

[Benton]

(07-14-2017, 12:29 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: What is allowed and not allowed word wise is quite fluid.  It would be nice if these would be added to the filter instead of just random suspensions for words that no one knows is not permitted.  

And as soon as we add a word, someone would use an otherwise common word as a derogatory term. Plus, there are a litany of words that can be used to insult someone that are otherwise harmless words. If we put every questionable word into the filter, we'd wind up with about 22 words available.

And someone would still insist on turning one of them into a way to deride someone's race, religion, gender, occupation, etc.

The simplest way to handle this: refer to what people are talking about as what it is. Since I don't feel like suspending myself I'll go with a PG example. If something is a robot, call it a robot. There's only one reason to call it a shiny bottom, rust lips, circuitry confused, son of a toaster, etc. And that reason is a lack of civility. Intentionally trying to make someone feel unwelcome, different, outside. And that runs counter to what moderators try to do, make this a place where everyone feels welcome to express conversation and ideas.

For anyone who lacks manners enough to be civil — to paraphrase Jake Chambers — Go then, there are other message boards than these.

[Benton]

(07-14-2017, 08:58 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: H

Insulting a poster is something I do not do.  

Insulting some weirdo in a news story.    Sure, if it's warranted.

And thank you Dill.  It's nice to be missed.

One thing to bear in mind: some "weirdo in a news story" may be exactly like another poster. So referring to a person in a news story as a weirdo can be taken as offense to the person being indirectly called a weirdo

If a news story is all about robots and a poster insists on saying all the bad things happen because robots are weirdos, then it's insulting to our robot board members. This isn't Snowflakefront. We accept robots here.

Even weird ones

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(07-14-2017, 12:29 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: What is allowed and not allowed word wise is quite fluid. It would be nice if these would be added to the filter instead of just random suspensions for words that no one knows is not permitted.

If I typed a list of the words I have been suspended or banned for it would be eye opening as most wouldn't even expect pronouns to be on that list.

I won't because I got a month for posting that one time.

It's humorous to see those who preach personal responsibility the most practice what the preach the least.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(07-14-2017, 12:27 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I don't like mod critiquing out in the open because it just isn't good form. I should stop there because we know where this is going if I continue, but I must. After all, this thread is a lot about clarifying how things go in here with the mods.

I think I see where clarification is being sought. To me, masking to get around censors would be putting spaces or hyphens between letters to get around it. I'll use a word that is not censored for effect:

D A M N or D-A-M-N/D*A*M*N

That makes the word still readable and is skirting around the filter. By using D$%^ or D___ it does make a reader know what the word is without it being readable to everyone and is no different than someone saying "the D-word." If we are including those things into the idea of skirting the censor on the board, then anytime someone says "the F-word" then they would be skirting it as well.

Personally, I just type out **** because I am lazy and don't care, but I can see why there is confusion there when compounded with inconsistent application.

I think the moderation should be as transparent as possible. If someone insists on using "transmission" as a slur then others can learn their bad behavior won't be tolerated. And as a bonus hopefully I won't read complaints from that person about their pronoun usage insinuating he was treated unfairly.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(07-14-2017, 12:50 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I have not used any slur or profanity. Just because you think a pronoun is a slur doesn't make it so.

I could post about cupcakes, unicorns, and rainbows and a few would find a problem.

I'm not sure what it is you're trying to accomplish because even you aren't buying what you're selling.

[StLucieBengal]

(07-14-2017, 11:34 PM)Benton Wrote: One thing to bear in mind: some "weirdo in a news story" may be exactly like another poster. So referring to a person in a news story as a weirdo can be taken as offense to the person being indirectly called a weirdo

If a news story is all about robots and a poster insists on saying all the bad things happen because robots are weirdos, then it's insulting to our robot board members. This isn't Snowflakefront. We accept robots here.

Even weird ones

By that rationale then anyone who insults a democrat or republican should be suspended.

When we start layering the feelings we can make a connection to anyone .

[*wildcats forever*]

(07-15-2017, 02:21 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: By that rationale then anyone who insults a democrat or republican should be suspended.  

When we start layering the feelings we can make a connection to anyone .

The key word here is "insult". Try reviewing the code of conduct, and see how far one gets when one insults another here. I'll wait.

[StLucieBengal]

(07-15-2017, 02:52 AM)wildcats forever Wrote: The key word here is "insult". Try reviewing the code of conduct, and see how far one gets when one insults another here. I'll wait.

If that person identifies as a republican or democrat and their life revolves around that identity then yes they would feel insulted.

It's the same exact thing when a transvestite in a news story tries going into girls restroom. If he is called a weirdo or someone with a mental disorder then someone with. Transvestite friend or family member can cry about feeling insulted.

Now hey if a board member is a transvestite then I would tone it down. But we have yet to have anyone come forward.

Outside of true actual poster being (insert issue here) there really isn't much else to be upset about. We all know people from all walks of life/.

Should I be able to claim all this Russia hate is insulting since my wife is from part of the world?

[JustWinBaby]

Kind of agree with Lucie here....

You should be allowed to insult people who deserve it. If you have a really stupid point - you ARE stupid (or at least very ignorant).

[*wildcats forever*]

(07-15-2017, 03:14 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: If that person identifies as a republican or democrat and their life revolves around that identity then yes they would feel insulted.    

It's the same exact thing when a transvestite in a news story tries going into girls restroom.   If he is called a weirdo or someone with a mental disorder then someone with. Transvestite friend or family member can cry about feeling insulted.    

Now hey if a board member is a transvestite then I would tone it down.   But we have yet to have anyone come forward.    

Outside of true actual poster being (insert issue here) there really isn't much else to be upset about.   We all know people from all walks of life/.  

Should I be able to claim all this Russia hate is insulting since my wife is from part of the world?

You know the answer to that question, and your 20 questions tact is not amusing or entertaining. Conduct your posts per the code of conduct and your membership here will continue. Continuing to pose inane hypothetical questions will be considered trolling. 

[*wildcats forever*]

(07-15-2017, 03:27 AM)JustWinBaby Wrote: Kind of agree with Lucie here....

You should be allowed to insult people who deserve it.  If you have a really stupid point - you ARE stupid (or at least very ignorant).

And there are other message boards that do allow insulting members. This one does not. And that will not change.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(07-15-2017, 03:32 AM)wildcats forever Wrote: You know the answer to that question, and your 20 questions tact is not amusing or entertaining. Conduct your posts per the code of conduct and your membership here will continue. Continuing to pose inane hypothetical questions will be considered trolling. 

But, Lucie has a point. It's only "considered" trolling. That's completely subjective. We need objective data. One man's troll is another's freedom fighter. LOL

[Belsnickel]

Can we have a way to label threads a fake news if the title or OP inaccurately describes the the linked content or makes a blatantly false claim?

Just curious, recent activity in the forum has nothing to do with this.

[GMDino]

(07-15-2017, 03:27 AM)JustWinBaby Wrote: Kind of agree with Lucie here....

You should be allowed to insult people who deserve it.  If you have a really stupid point - you ARE stupid (or at least very ignorant).

I'll only disagree to that because some points, while stupid, are only because of their ideology.  Doesn't mean that PERSON is necessarily stupid.  I knwo very smart people who believe very stupid things because it advances their ideology (religious or political).

I think we should be allowed to say "that statement is stupid and I can't believe you believe it" or some such thing.

But I also agree with the mods that sticking to the POINT rather than the person is the best way to go.

If this board had a tremendous turnover of members I could see the occasional reminder about past posts and past stances in relation to something new that is said.  But given who posts here I think we all know who stands for what and why.  

That said occasionally it is needed to remind someone that they said something a year ago that directly reflects on what they are saying now.

[Benton]

(07-15-2017, 02:21 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: By that rationale then anyone who insults a democrat or republican should be suspended.

When we start layering the feelings we can make a connection to anyone .

Good point. Keep it civil. There's really no need to insult anyone.

[Dill]

(07-15-2017, 03:27 AM)JustWinBaby Wrote: Kind of agree with Lucie here....

You should be allowed to insult people who deserve it.  If you have a really stupid point - you ARE stupid (or at least very ignorant).

Lucie didn't say people should be allowed to insult others who "deserve" it.

Stupidity and ignorance are not wholly subjective matters of opinion. Their presence is usually demonstrable, and if demonstrated, enough said.

But in discussions of politics or religion, people who call others "stupid" or "ignorant" outright in default of demonstration are up to something else.  Some think they can't be stupid themselves if they call someone else that. Others turn to personal invective precisely when they cannot follow or rebut an argument that has been made.  So the name calling expresses a feeling they cannot control, or hides ignorance, or forestalls further embarrassment, since invective usually kills discussion.

Personal invective is not performative speech. You don't make someone stupid by calling him that, and you don't establish your own credentials for deciding who is stupid or not.  I don't doubt that for some posters, calling others names produces a  feeling of satisfaction, even accomplishment, but no really "superior" person would accept that feeling over the real thing--and would feel no pressing need ever to call anyone stupid, however apparently deserving.

Were name calling more widely recognized as default and impotence, the Mods would have much less work to do and our forum threads would become more exciting and informative, and enjoy more participation.

 

[StLucieBengal]

(07-15-2017, 11:45 AM)Dill Wrote: Lucie didn't say people should be allowed to insult others who "deserve" it.

Stupidity and ignorance are not wholly subjective matters of opinion. Their presence is usually demonstrable, and if so, enough said.

But in discussions of politics or religion, people who call others "stupid" or "ignorant" outright in default of demonstration are up to something else.  Some think they can't be stupid themselves if they call someone else that. Others turn to personal invective precisely when they cannot follow or rebut an argument that has been made.  So the name calling expresses a feeling they cannot control, or hides ignorance, or forestalls further embarrassment, since invective usually kills discussion.

Personal invective is not performative speech. You don't make someone stupid by calling him that, and you don't establish your own credentials for deciding who is stupid or not.  I don't doubt that for some posters, calling others names produces a  feeling of satisfaction, even accomplishment, but no really "superior" person would accept that feeling over the real thing--and would feel no pressing need ever to call anyone stupid, however apparently deserving.

Were name calling more widely recognized as default and impotence, the Mods would have much less work to do and our forum threads would become more exciting and informative, and enjoy more participation.

 

Anyone who has made a news story with their actions ais fair game for insults..... they certainly deserve it for doing crazy stuff to get them into the news in the first place.

[StLucieBengal]

(07-15-2017, 03:32 AM)wildcats forever Wrote: You know the answer to that question, and your 20 questions tact is not amusing or entertaining. Conduct your posts per the code of conduct and your membership here will continue. Continuing to pose inane hypothetical questions will be considered trolling. 

So the code of conduct covers anyone who any poster knows at any time.

Got it.

[Beaker]

(07-15-2017, 10:22 AM)GMDino Wrote: I think we should be allowed to say "that statement is stupid and I can't believe you believe it" or some such thing.

This makes sense. If your insult refers to the item rather than the person themselves, then it should be considered part of the discussion (that poster's opinion) and not a personal attack.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(07-15-2017, 12:22 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: So the code of conduct covers anyone who any poster knows at any time.

Got it.

You know you got it. I know you got it. The mods know you got it. The majority of regulars know you got it. We, to include you, know what you were up to and what you are up to now. False pretenses won't change anything.