(09-07-2024, 12:13 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: I think everyone loves Burrow here but few of us would say he's better than Mahomes. The way Mahomes moves in the pocket and the angles of his throws, he is not the same as anyone else. We need rings before we have any comparison...but mahomes also has Andy Reid and we have Zac Taylor. 

The question is if the QBs swapped teams, does Burrow win on KC and does Mahomes win on the Bengals?

Yes. Burrow would have multiple rings.

Mahomes would still be good, but I don't know if he'd have any rings. Reid's offense seems to really help his players get open, Taylor's offense seems to rely on his WRs being better than their opponents. We seem to only use motion to determine coverage, move a guy, he comes set, then we snap the ball. Meanwhile KC (and Miami) seem to like to use motion to get a guy a head of steam and tire our defenders while making them run side-to-side or barring that force on-the-fly reponsibility handoffs. KC also while not being a rush-heavy team has always been able to rush when they need to. Their rushing YPC as a team has been 13th or better in 5 of Mahomes' 6 years as a starter. It's got to be awfully nice as a QB to not only have a HoF TE safety valve, but also the ability to run out some first downs when you really need to.

Kermit is better at doing things on the fly the off script stuff is why he’s already got 3 rings.

Burrow is no slouch though the escapes against the Chiefs in the AFCCG the bat shit crazy play against the 49ers last season and the bomb to Chase against the Texans.

He even said it himself he’s been working on improving that this offseason we will see.

Until Burrow wins a ring Mahomes will always be looked at as number 1 but it’s much closer than people think.

(09-07-2024, 12:24 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Yes. Burrow would have multiple rings.

Mahomes would still be good, but I don't know if he'd have any rings. Reid's offense seems to really help his players get open, Taylor's offense seems to rely on his WRs being better than their opponents. We seem to only use motion to determine coverage, move a guy, he comes set, then we snap the ball. Meanwhile KC (and Miami) seem to like to use motion to get a guy a head of steam and tire our defenders while making them run side-to-side or barring that force on-the-fly reponsibility handoffs. KC also while not being a rush-heavy team has always been able to rush when they need to. Their rushing YPC as a team has been 13th or better in 5 of Mahomes' 6 years as a starter. It's got to be awfully nice as a QB to not only have a HoF TE safety valve, but also the ability to run out some first downs when you really need to.

Doubtful to Maybe multiple rings, since Burrow has been injured and KC few years ago was not that great on line so not Burrow does not go down with KC also, Mahomes is a generational player, with Bengals he would have 1 maybe 2 rings. 

(09-07-2024, 12:13 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: I think everyone loves Burrow here but few of us would say he's better than Mahomes. The way Mahomes moves in the pocket and the angles of his throws, he is not the same as anyone else. We need rings before we have any comparison...but mahomes also has Andy Reid and we have Zac Taylor. 

The question is if the QBs swapped teams, does Burrow win on KC and does Mahomes win on the Bengals?

yes with Burrow at KC and yes but more with Mahomes here

Bach to the Chase thread, i wonder when Chase will decide he is playing tomorrow, i hope he gives them notice today... so they can prep more for their game plan

(09-07-2024, 12:24 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Yes. Burrow would have multiple rings.

Mahomes would still be good, but I don't know if he'd have any rings. Reid's offense seems to really help his players get open, Taylor's offense seems to rely on his WRs being better than their opponents. We seem to only use motion to determine coverage, move a guy, he comes set, then we snap the ball. Meanwhile KC (and Miami) seem to like to use motion to get a guy a head of steam and tire our defenders while making them run side-to-side or barring that force on-the-fly reponsibility handoffs. KC also while not being a rush-heavy team has always been able to rush when they need to. Their rushing YPC as a team has been 13th or better in 5 of Mahomes' 6 years as a starter. It's got to be awfully nice as a QB to not only have a HoF TE safety valve, but also the ability to run out some first downs when you really need to.

The Dolphins and KC also have considerably more offensive penalties.

If he “decides” not to play tomorrow, I hope they hit him with every fine they can. And he can rot.

(09-07-2024, 12:39 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Bach to the Chase thread, i wonder when Chase will decide he is playing tomorrow, i hope he gives them notice today... so they can prep more for their game plan

They likely know already.  The Questionable designation is probably to keep the Pats guessing and to force them to prepare for either possibility.

(09-07-2024, 01:19 PM)Whatever Wrote: They likely know already.  The Questionable designation is probably to keep the Pats guessing and to force them to prepare for either possibility.

im just going off his comments, he literally said he will decide at game time if not signed and seem indicate doubtful he will play without a contract.. Bengals need load the fines if that happens

This IS NOT how any of us want to start the season. Bengals start 0-2, and it's time to play for next year. Clearly, as fans we care more about wins and losses than some players do.

(09-07-2024, 01:23 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: im just going off his comments, he literally said he will decide at game time if not signed and seem indicate doubtful he will play without a contract.. Bengals need load the fines if that happens

Relax.  Sonnerpeace said he's playing. 

(09-07-2024, 12:13 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: The question is if the QBs swapped teams, does Burrow win on KC and does Mahomes win on the Bengals?

I think the real question is would Mike Brown have drafted John Ross over Joe Burrow?

(09-07-2024, 01:10 PM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: If he “decides” not to play tomorrow, I hope they hit him with every fine they can. And he can rot.

The whole thing with Chase saying he will be the one that decides if he plays or not makes Zac Taylor look like a weak coach who lets his players run him over.  Taylor needs to grow some nads, step up and say I will be sitting Chase tomorrow because he hasnt practiced enough with the team.  If Taylor lets his guys call the shots, he will end up losing the respect of the locker room.

I knew Lamar Jackson was gonna choke in the opener. I just knew it in my heart. He had a wide open WR 2 on the penultimate play of the game and just choked threw it. Mahommes def. better than him or Burrow. His rings prove it.

(09-07-2024, 01:45 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: The whole thing with Chase saying he will be the one that decides if he plays or not makes Zac Taylor look like a weak coach who lets his players run him over.  Taylor needs to grow some nads, step up and say I will be sitting Chase tomorrow because he hasnt practiced enough with the team.  If Taylor lets his guys call the shots, he will end up losing the respect of the locker room.

Chase needs a wake-up call.

(09-07-2024, 11:22 AM)casear2727 Wrote: At this point, of course Burrow is not Mahomes.   Have we ever seen Joe without elite WRs?  We haven't.  

Assuming Joe can stay healthy I think he could win games with KC's receivers and oline.

Mahomes is better than we as "rival" fans want to admit.  He does things that coaches discourage in quarterbacks from youth football all the way to the pros.  The difference is that he gets away with it. He's better off-script than any quarterback, possibly ever.  

That said, I think Mahomes without Reid would be a bit of a different trajectory.  Reid has honed his methods for decades.  His system leans a lot on TEs. His textbook role-player RBs are 7th rounders or scrap heap vets like McKinnon.  Their skill sets are pass pro and getting yards from dump passes.

What I'm trying to say is, the Reid system is quarterback friendly.  It can cover up a lot of warts in a lesser player or a young guy finding his way.  It can thrive with or without  elite receivers.  He's got a real ability to imprint on his players, his qbs in particular.  

Mahomes wasn't considered generational as a prospect.  Reid knew what he had and did a lot right in his cultivation.  He didn't rush him.  I think that the system insulated him early but took on a whole new look the more he matured.  He wasn't necessarily leaned on early, but once they lost key weapons he was elite enough to get by.  

Brady was not a similar player, but his growth was similarly gradual.  His team was already built around him and not necessarily with him in mind.  Great run game, elite defense.  

Most teams don't have these luxuries.  If you draft a qb early, you probably have a newer coach and system.  Your roster is not likely to be very strong.  As was the case with Joe.

This offense has never been quarterback friendly.  The line was an issue for a long time.  The run game was not respected or even developed to any real degree.  We cycle qbs like fantasy baseball pitchers; all with the idea that 9 will elevate them.  They aren't here to help Joe.  They come here so Joe can inflate their stats and get them paid elsewhere.  Again, demand something out of him rather than doing something to help him.  

Our running backs have been questionable in pass pro, particularly last year.  Perine leaving was unsustainable.  Mixon was an awful protector.  It's not expensive to get a pass blocking 3rd down back.  They are not Ja'Marr wanting 35 mil a year.  They are McKinnon making a mil.  That was malpractice on every level.

(09-07-2024, 01:29 PM)MTBengalsFan Wrote: This IS NOT how any of us want to start the season. Bengals start 0-2, and it's time to play for next year. Clearly, as fans we care more about wins and losses than some players do.

Yeah, of course. Why does anyone think the players care more about winning than fans. Do we care more about players getting paid than we do wins? Fans want to win. Players want to get paid for their profession.

The chiefs lost Hill and then won a SB and had in the opener Flowers, a top WR. I guess we can afford to trade Chase and still be competitive and get another good WR to compliment HIggings and pay him instead.

(09-07-2024, 01:45 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: The whole thing with Chase saying he will be the one that decides if he plays or not makes Zac Taylor look like a weak coach who lets his players run him over.  Taylor needs to grow some nads, step up and say I will be sitting Chase tomorrow because he hasnt practiced enough with the team.  If Taylor lets his guys call the shots, he will end up losing the respect of the locker room.

I actually agree on that too. Zac should have told him if he doesn’t practice by day X, you’re on the bench.

(09-07-2024, 03:14 PM)samhain Wrote: Mahomes is better than we as "rival" fans want to admit.  He does things that coaches discourage in quarterbacks from youth football all the way to the pros.  The difference is that he gets away with it. He's better off-script than any quarterback, possibly ever.  

That said, I think Mahomes without Reid would be a bit of a different trajectory.  Reid has honed his methods for decades.  His system leans a lot on TEs. His textbook role-player RBs are 7th rounders or scrap heap vets like McKinnon.  Their skill sets are pass pro and getting yards from dump passes.

What I'm trying to say is, the Reid system is quarterback friendly.  It can cover up a lot of warts in a lesser player or a young guy finding his way.  It can thrive with or without  elite receivers.  He's got a real ability to imprint on his players, his qbs in particular.  

Mahomes wasn't considered generational as a prospect.  Reid knew what he had and did a lot right in his cultivation.  He didn't rush him.  I think that the system insulated him early but took on a whole new look the more he matured.  He wasn't necessarily leaned on early, but once they lost key weapons he was elite enough to get by.  

Brady was not a similar player, but his growth was similarly gradual.  His team was already built around him and not necessarily with him in mind.  Great run game, elite defense.  

Most teams don't have these luxuries.  If you draft a qb early, you probably have a newer coach and system.  Your roster is not likely to be very strong.  As was the case with Joe.

This offense has never been quarterback friendly.  The line was an issue for a long time.  The run game was not respected or even developed to any real degree.  We cycle qbs like fantasy baseball pitchers; all with the idea that 9 will elevate them.  They aren't here to help Joe.  They come here so Joe can inflate their stats and get them paid elsewhere.  Again, demand something out of him rather than doing something to help him.  

Our running backs have been questionable in pass pro, particularly last year.  Perine leaving was unsustainable.  Mixon was an awful protector.  It's not expensive to get a pass blocking 3rd down back.  They are not Ja'Marr wanting 35 mil a year.  They are McKinnon making a mil.  That was malpractice on every level.

Reid has won with many QBs, I agree that Mahomes isnt the same QB if he didnt start off with Big Andy.