Posts: 17,293
Threads: 239
Reputation:
137147
Joined: Oct 2015
(09-07-2024, 12:13 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: I think everyone loves Burrow here but few of us would say he's better than Mahomes. The way Mahomes moves in the pocket and the angles of his throws, he is not the same as anyone else. We need rings before we have any comparison...but mahomes also has Andy Reid and we have Zac Taylor.
The question is if the QBs swapped teams, does Burrow win on KC and does Mahomes win on the Bengals?
Yes. Burrow would have multiple rings.
Mahomes would still be good, but I don't know if he'd have any rings. Reid's offense seems to really help his players get open, Taylor's offense seems to rely on his WRs being better than their opponents. We seem to only use motion to determine coverage, move a guy, he comes set, then we snap the ball. Meanwhile KC (and Miami) seem to like to use motion to get a guy a head of steam and tire our defenders while making them run side-to-side or barring that force on-the-fly reponsibility handoffs. KC also while not being a rush-heavy team has always been able to rush when they need to. Their rushing YPC as a team has been 13th or better in 5 of Mahomes' 6 years as a starter. It's got to be awfully nice as a QB to not only have a HoF TE safety valve, but also the ability to run out some first downs when you really need to.
____________________________________________________________
Posts: 1,112
Threads: 12
Reputation:
7211
Joined: May 2022
Kermit is better at doing things on the fly the off script stuff is why he’s already got 3 rings.
Burrow is no slouch though the escapes against the Chiefs in the AFCCG the bat shit crazy play against the 49ers last season and the bomb to Chase against the Texans.
He even said it himself he’s been working on improving that this offseason we will see.
Until Burrow wins a ring Mahomes will always be looked at as number 1 but it’s much closer than people think.
Posts: 8,272
Threads: 97
Reputation:
22175
Joined: Nov 2015
(09-07-2024, 12:24 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Yes. Burrow would have multiple rings.
Mahomes would still be good, but I don't know if he'd have any rings. Reid's offense seems to really help his players get open, Taylor's offense seems to rely on his WRs being better than their opponents. We seem to only use motion to determine coverage, move a guy, he comes set, then we snap the ball. Meanwhile KC (and Miami) seem to like to use motion to get a guy a head of steam and tire our defenders while making them run side-to-side or barring that force on-the-fly reponsibility handoffs. KC also while not being a rush-heavy team has always been able to rush when they need to. Their rushing YPC as a team has been 13th or better in 5 of Mahomes' 6 years as a starter. It's got to be awfully nice as a QB to not only have a HoF TE safety valve, but also the ability to run out some first downs when you really need to.
Doubtful to Maybe multiple rings, since Burrow has been injured and KC few years ago was not that great on line so not Burrow does not go down with KC also, Mahomes is a generational player, with Bengals he would have 1 maybe 2 rings.
Posts: 8,272
Threads: 97
Reputation:
22175
Joined: Nov 2015
(09-07-2024, 12:13 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: I think everyone loves Burrow here but few of us would say he's better than Mahomes. The way Mahomes moves in the pocket and the angles of his throws, he is not the same as anyone else. We need rings before we have any comparison...but mahomes also has Andy Reid and we have Zac Taylor.
The question is if the QBs swapped teams, does Burrow win on KC and does Mahomes win on the Bengals?
yes with Burrow at KC and yes but more with Mahomes here
Posts: 8,272
Threads: 97
Reputation:
22175
Joined: Nov 2015
Bach to the Chase thread, i wonder when Chase will decide he is playing tomorrow, i hope he gives them notice today... so they can prep more for their game plan
Posts: 5,956
Threads: 144
Reputation:
27903
Joined: Dec 2021
(09-07-2024, 12:24 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Yes. Burrow would have multiple rings.
Mahomes would still be good, but I don't know if he'd have any rings. Reid's offense seems to really help his players get open, Taylor's offense seems to rely on his WRs being better than their opponents. We seem to only use motion to determine coverage, move a guy, he comes set, then we snap the ball. Meanwhile KC (and Miami) seem to like to use motion to get a guy a head of steam and tire our defenders while making them run side-to-side or barring that force on-the-fly reponsibility handoffs. KC also while not being a rush-heavy team has always been able to rush when they need to. Their rushing YPC as a team has been 13th or better in 5 of Mahomes' 6 years as a starter. It's got to be awfully nice as a QB to not only have a HoF TE safety valve, but also the ability to run out some first downs when you really need to.
The Dolphins and KC also have considerably more offensive penalties.
Romo “ so impressed with Zac ...1 of the best in the NFL… they are just fundamentally sound. Taylor the best winning % in the Playoffs of current coaches. Joe Burrow” Zac is the best head coach in the NFL & that gives me a lot of confidence." Taylor led the Bengals to their first playoff win since 1990, ending the longest active drought in the four major North American sports, en and appeared in Super Bowl LVI, the first since 1988.
Posts: 7,095
Threads: 107
Reputation:
20839
Joined: Aug 2015
If he “decides” not to play tomorrow, I hope they hit him with every fine they can. And he can rot.
If you see something suspicious, say something suspicious.
Posts: 7,209
Threads: 51
Reputation:
49684
Joined: May 2015
(09-07-2024, 12:39 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Bach to the Chase thread, i wonder when Chase will decide he is playing tomorrow, i hope he gives them notice today... so they can prep more for their game plan
They likely know already. The Questionable designation is probably to keep the Pats guessing and to force them to prepare for either possibility.
Posts: 8,272
Threads: 97
Reputation:
22175
Joined: Nov 2015
(09-07-2024, 01:19 PM)Whatever Wrote: They likely know already. The Questionable designation is probably to keep the Pats guessing and to force them to prepare for either possibility.
im just going off his comments, he literally said he will decide at game time if not signed and seem indicate doubtful he will play without a contract.. Bengals need load the fines if that happens
Posts: 414
Threads: 8
Reputation:
2352
Joined: Oct 2015
Location: Bozeman, MT
This IS NOT how any of us want to start the season. Bengals start 0-2, and it's time to play for next year. Clearly, as fans we care more about wins and losses than some players do.
Posts: 231
Threads: 0
Reputation:
1976
Joined: Apr 2020
(09-07-2024, 01:23 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: im just going off his comments, he literally said he will decide at game time if not signed and seem indicate doubtful he will play without a contract.. Bengals need load the fines if that happens
Relax. Sonnerpeace said he's playing.
Posts: 28,829
Threads: 40
Reputation:
128025
Joined: May 2015
Location: Parts Unknown, PA
(09-07-2024, 12:13 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: The question is if the QBs swapped teams, does Burrow win on KC and does Mahomes win on the Bengals?
I think the real question is would Mike Brown have drafted John Ross over Joe Burrow?
Posts: 1,952
Threads: 10
Reputation:
10578
Joined: Apr 2020
(09-07-2024, 01:10 PM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: If he “decides” not to play tomorrow, I hope they hit him with every fine they can. And he can rot.
The whole thing with Chase saying he will be the one that decides if he plays or not makes Zac Taylor look like a weak coach who lets his players run him over. Taylor needs to grow some nads, step up and say I will be sitting Chase tomorrow because he hasnt practiced enough with the team. If Taylor lets his guys call the shots, he will end up losing the respect of the locker room.
Posts: 7,860
Threads: 3
Reputation:
13337
Joined: Sep 2016
Location: BurningArizona
I knew Lamar Jackson was gonna choke in the opener. I just knew it in my heart. He had a wide open WR 2 on the penultimate play of the game and just choked threw it. Mahommes def. better than him or Burrow. His rings prove it.
Posts: 7,095
Threads: 107
Reputation:
20839
Joined: Aug 2015
(09-07-2024, 01:45 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: The whole thing with Chase saying he will be the one that decides if he plays or not makes Zac Taylor look like a weak coach who lets his players run him over. Taylor needs to grow some nads, step up and say I will be sitting Chase tomorrow because he hasnt practiced enough with the team. If Taylor lets his guys call the shots, he will end up losing the respect of the locker room.
Chase needs a wake-up call.
If you see something suspicious, say something suspicious.
Posts: 6,050
Threads: 72
Reputation:
39458
Joined: May 2015
(09-07-2024, 11:22 AM)casear2727 Wrote: At this point, of course Burrow is not Mahomes. Have we ever seen Joe without elite WRs? We haven't.
Assuming Joe can stay healthy I think he could win games with KC's receivers and oline.
Mahomes is better than we as "rival" fans want to admit. He does things that coaches discourage in quarterbacks from youth football all the way to the pros. The difference is that he gets away with it. He's better off-script than any quarterback, possibly ever.
That said, I think Mahomes without Reid would be a bit of a different trajectory. Reid has honed his methods for decades. His system leans a lot on TEs. His textbook role-player RBs are 7th rounders or scrap heap vets like McKinnon. Their skill sets are pass pro and getting yards from dump passes.
What I'm trying to say is, the Reid system is quarterback friendly. It can cover up a lot of warts in a lesser player or a young guy finding his way. It can thrive with or without elite receivers. He's got a real ability to imprint on his players, his qbs in particular.
Mahomes wasn't considered generational as a prospect. Reid knew what he had and did a lot right in his cultivation. He didn't rush him. I think that the system insulated him early but took on a whole new look the more he matured. He wasn't necessarily leaned on early, but once they lost key weapons he was elite enough to get by.
Brady was not a similar player, but his growth was similarly gradual. His team was already built around him and not necessarily with him in mind. Great run game, elite defense.
Most teams don't have these luxuries. If you draft a qb early, you probably have a newer coach and system. Your roster is not likely to be very strong. As was the case with Joe.
This offense has never been quarterback friendly. The line was an issue for a long time. The run game was not respected or even developed to any real degree. We cycle qbs like fantasy baseball pitchers; all with the idea that 9 will elevate them. They aren't here to help Joe. They come here so Joe can inflate their stats and get them paid elsewhere. Again, demand something out of him rather than doing something to help him.
Our running backs have been questionable in pass pro, particularly last year. Perine leaving was unsustainable. Mixon was an awful protector. It's not expensive to get a pass blocking 3rd down back. They are not Ja'Marr wanting 35 mil a year. They are McKinnon making a mil. That was malpractice on every level.
Posts: 712
Threads: 9
Reputation:
3172
Joined: Apr 2021
(09-07-2024, 01:29 PM)MTBengalsFan Wrote: This IS NOT how any of us want to start the season. Bengals start 0-2, and it's time to play for next year. Clearly, as fans we care more about wins and losses than some players do.
Yeah, of course. Why does anyone think the players care more about winning than fans. Do we care more about players getting paid than we do wins? Fans want to win. Players want to get paid for their profession.
Posts: 7,860
Threads: 3
Reputation:
13337
Joined: Sep 2016
Location: BurningArizona
The chiefs lost Hill and then won a SB and had in the opener Flowers, a top WR. I guess we can afford to trade Chase and still be competitive and get another good WR to compliment HIggings and pay him instead.
Posts: 712
Threads: 9
Reputation:
3172
Joined: Apr 2021
(09-07-2024, 01:45 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: The whole thing with Chase saying he will be the one that decides if he plays or not makes Zac Taylor look like a weak coach who lets his players run him over. Taylor needs to grow some nads, step up and say I will be sitting Chase tomorrow because he hasnt practiced enough with the team. If Taylor lets his guys call the shots, he will end up losing the respect of the locker room.
I actually agree on that too. Zac should have told him if he doesn’t practice by day X, you’re on the bench.
Posts: 5,878
Threads: 80
Joined: Sep 2021
(09-07-2024, 03:14 PM)samhain Wrote: Mahomes is better than we as "rival" fans want to admit. He does things that coaches discourage in quarterbacks from youth football all the way to the pros. The difference is that he gets away with it. He's better off-script than any quarterback, possibly ever.
That said, I think Mahomes without Reid would be a bit of a different trajectory. Reid has honed his methods for decades. His system leans a lot on TEs. His textbook role-player RBs are 7th rounders or scrap heap vets like McKinnon. Their skill sets are pass pro and getting yards from dump passes.
What I'm trying to say is, the Reid system is quarterback friendly. It can cover up a lot of warts in a lesser player or a young guy finding his way. It can thrive with or without elite receivers. He's got a real ability to imprint on his players, his qbs in particular.
Mahomes wasn't considered generational as a prospect. Reid knew what he had and did a lot right in his cultivation. He didn't rush him. I think that the system insulated him early but took on a whole new look the more he matured. He wasn't necessarily leaned on early, but once they lost key weapons he was elite enough to get by.
Brady was not a similar player, but his growth was similarly gradual. His team was already built around him and not necessarily with him in mind. Great run game, elite defense.
Most teams don't have these luxuries. If you draft a qb early, you probably have a newer coach and system. Your roster is not likely to be very strong. As was the case with Joe.
This offense has never been quarterback friendly. The line was an issue for a long time. The run game was not respected or even developed to any real degree. We cycle qbs like fantasy baseball pitchers; all with the idea that 9 will elevate them. They aren't here to help Joe. They come here so Joe can inflate their stats and get them paid elsewhere. Again, demand something out of him rather than doing something to help him.
Our running backs have been questionable in pass pro, particularly last year. Perine leaving was unsustainable. Mixon was an awful protector. It's not expensive to get a pass blocking 3rd down back. They are not Ja'Marr wanting 35 mil a year. They are McKinnon making a mil. That was malpractice on every level.
Reid has won with many QBs, I agree that Mahomes isnt the same QB if he didnt start off with Big Andy.
|