La'El Collins opt out

[*bfine32*]

(02-20-2023, 11:29 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Stop posting objective breakdowns like that, you'll ruin the haters' narrative that Volson is a horrible player.

It's not "hate" it's an opinion.

The guy rated 5 points lower than Billy Price did his rookie year. Now that's objective. The link you referred to from "All Bengals" is subjective.

[*SHRacerX*]

(02-20-2023, 01:51 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: This is actually a good idea. I went ahead and plotted it out with a trendline included in the graph. I removed week one from the graph because of how atrocious it was, but the rolling averages after each week include week one. It just isn't plotted. 



Pressure percentage, Volson flirted with being an average NFL G but finished below average after a tough final week. 



Pretty much the same story for sack percentage. 



According to PFF grades, Volson didn't really improve much in run blocking as the season went on. He had a tough dip at the start of the season, rebounded towards the middle and was essentially a league average run blocker for the rest of the season. 

Good stuff, although as I always say about PFF, it doesn't take in to consideration the talent of the opponent.  He had a really tough assignment, as a rookie, but was at the very least, serviceable to solid.  

I would love to see his numbers plotted against all NFL rookies at Guard in 2022.  I do feel he is poised to have a nice improvement in year 2, and I was only trying to look at an in-house option to compete at RT with a potential trade out of the first round, get an additional pick, and draft a LG early in round 2.  I don't think it is that crazy.

Adeniji might move faster (not sure, but he could) but he suffers with the same problem Jonah does at the opposite end.  He just doesn't anchor well.  That seems to be one of Volson's strengths.  If Adeniji and Williams didn't improve their strength after being here as long as they have, I don't see it suddenly improving by next season.  Carman has more anchor than Williams.  He might not be as quick, but he didn't get bullrushed.  I feel like Volson might be the other side's version of Carman. 

Of course, they need to draft and develop at OT as well, but I still believe that Volson should get a shot at RT.  

[WeezyBengal]

(02-21-2023, 09:31 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Good stuff, although as I always say about PFF, it doesn't take in to consideration the talent of the opponent.  He had a really tough assignment, as a rookie, but was at the very least, serviceable to solid.  

I would love to see his numbers plotted against all NFL rookies at Guard in 2022.  I do feel he is poised to have a nice improvement in year 2, and I was only trying to look at an in-house option to compete at RT with a potential trade out of the first round, get an additional pick, and draft a LG early in round 2.  I don't think it is that crazy.

Adeniji might move faster (not sure, but he could) but he suffers with the same problem Jonah does at the opposite end.  He just doesn't anchor well.  That seems to be one of Volson's strengths.  If Adeniji and Williams didn't improve their strength after being here as long as they have, I don't see it suddenly improving by next season.  Carman has more anchor than Williams.  He might not be as quick, but he didn't get bullrushed.  I feel like Volson might be the other side's version of Carman. 

Of course, they need to draft and develop at OT as well, but I still believe that Volson should get a shot at RT.  

Adeniji and Jonah aren't comparable in my opinion. Jonah is in a (multiple?) tiers ahead of Adeniji. Adeniji is God awful and honestly shouldn't be sniffing the roster next year. That experiment needs to end. 

[*ochocincos*]

(02-21-2023, 10:48 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Adeniji and Jonah aren't comparable in my opinion. Jonah is in a (multiple?) tiers ahead of Adeniji. Adeniji is God awful and honestly shouldn't be sniffing the roster next year. That experiment needs to end. 

Yea Adeniji's had 3 years to get it together, and he hasn't.
He has the athleticism, but his functional strength is still atrocious.
Typically by the end of the 3rd season, you find out who a player really will become.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-21-2023, 02:23 AM)bfine32 Wrote: It's not "hate" it's an opinion.

The guy rated 5 points lower than Billy Price did his rookie year. Now that's objective. The link you referred to from "All Bengals" is subjective.

Yep Volson was just ok at best. There were periods early in the season he was easily as bad or worse than we ever saw with Adeniji.
People tend to give him the benefit of the doubt because he was a 4th rounder.
If he was a Rd 1 or Rd 2 pick, they (likely) would be saying he sucked.

There's potentially a correlation to the fact Jonah Williams had his worst season with Volson next to him.
He was much better when Spain was the LG.


I'm not saying to bring Spain back (although I think he'd be ok depth), but I do think there's opportunity to upgrade LG over Volson.
Getting some new OT (depth at least) is higher priority though, IMO.

[BengalsBong]

Wondering if this could be a strength and conditioning issue our guys do not seem to build bulk and get more stout in two or three years here.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

Regarding the OP, No.

1) I have not seen anything indicating Collins won't be ready.
2) We already have enough OL issues. Don't create more.
3) We cannot cut him while he's injured.
4) Even if we did, we don't save that much on the cap.

Adeniji/Smith being upgraded and Scharping replaced are where we should start on the OL. Collins, Williams, Carman, and Volson are playable. Karras more than. And Cappa is good.

I don't think a plug & play OT will be there at #29 (Harrison not strong enough). I'd lean towards drafting the best available playmaker at #29 (TE, WR, DB, DL) and hitting up OL depth on Day 2 and Day 3.

OL depth (Adeniji, Smith, Scharping, Hill), WR depth, TE2, NT depth (Tufele, Tupou), DE#5, and P ate all areas we should be aiming to bolster.

FA could obviously add TE1, LB, S, CB, and RB depth.

[Soonerpeace]

(02-21-2023, 12:13 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Regarding the OP, No.

1) I have not seen anything indicating Collins won't be ready.
2) We already have enough OL issues. Don't create more.
3) We cannot cut him while he's injured.
4) Even if we did, we don't save that much on the cap.

Adeniji/Smith being upgraded and Scharping replaced are where we should start on the OL. Collins, Williams, Carman, and Volson are playable. Karras more than. And Cappa is good.

I don't think a plug & play OT will be there at #29 (Harrison not strong enough). I'd lean towards drafting the best available playmaker at #29 (TE, WR, DB, DL) and hitting up OL depth on Day 2 and Day 3.

OL depth (Adeniji, Smith, Scharping, Hill), WR depth, TE2, NT depth (Tufele, Tupou), DE#5, and P ate all areas we should be aiming to bolster.

FA could obviously add TE1, LB, S, CB, and RB depth.

If a top tackle is available at #18 they should swap picks with Detroit and give them their 2nd rounder. If not draft one at 29. Between Carman ( looked good at LT) and Williams and a the rookie and Collins hopefully something develops. You can’t put the Bills game or the Chiefs game as a referendum on the OL. Let’s not forget the 10 game winning streak or surprising play by the reserves in the playoffs. We lost by 3 points to KC. They had an uncharacteristic punt return and personal foul to beat us at the buzzer.

[Soonerpeace]

(02-21-2023, 11:48 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Yep Volson was just ok at best. There were periods early in the season he was easily as bad or worse than we ever saw with Adeniji.
People tend to give him the benefit of the doubt because he was a 4th rounder.
If he was a Rd 1 or Rd 2 pick, they (likely) would be saying he sucked.

There's potentially a correlation to the fact Jonah Williams had his worst season with Volson next to him.
He was much better when Spain was the LG.


I'm not saying to bring Spain back (although I think he'd be ok depth), but I do think there's opportunity to upgrade LG over Volson.
Getting some new OT (depth at least) is higher priority though, IMO.

Carman & Volson played pretty well next to each other so I’m not a buyer. Trying to link Williams poor play to Volson. It’s not like Williams has ever been stellar. But I do agree he had his worst year this year. I don’t think it’s indicative.

[*bfine32*]

(02-21-2023, 11:48 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Yep Volson was just ok at best. There were periods early in the season he was easily as bad or worse than we ever saw with Adeniji.
People tend to give him the benefit of the doubt because he was a 4th rounder.
If he was a Rd 1 or Rd 2 pick, they (likely) would be saying he sucked.

There's potentially a correlation to the fact Jonah Williams had his worst season with Volson next to him.
He was much better when Spain was the LG.


I'm not saying to bring Spain back (although I think he'd be ok depth), but I do think there's opportunity to upgrade LG over Volson.
Getting some new OT (depth at least) is higher priority though, IMO.

Folks just like to proclaim "hate" because they think any opinion that disagrees with theirs has no merit.

I hope Volston becomes the next great OG in the league, but it's obvious our oline needs upgrading and if you ask me for the weakest link in our 2022 oline starters I'd say it was Cordell Volston. Hell even Hakeen Adeniji outscored him according to PFF.

[007BengalsFan]

(02-20-2023, 02:19 PM)Wyche Wrote: Agree. People seem to forget Williams hurt his knee early in the season and played through it, then hurt it again against Baltimore. He played pretty well in 21, I think he bounces back if he can stay healthy.

The first time Williams hurt his knee was in the 5th game of the season against the Ravens.  I dont remember Williams doing all that great even before the injury against the Ravens although someone with a PFF subscription could correct me if I am wrong. 

As far as the 2021 season, even in 2021 Williams still gave up 8 sacks which put him in the top 5 of all tackles in sacks allowed.  This makes two years in a row Williams has been one of the worst tackles protecting his QB.  Personally, I wouldnt expect any dramatic change in year 5.  I would think he probably finishes toward the top in sacks allowed for the 3rd year in a row.  I will also expect some fans will continue to make the excuse for him this year that he had surgery in the offseason so he shouldnt be expected to play well when it does happen.

[Frank Booth]

(02-22-2023, 01:24 AM)007BengalsFan Wrote: The first time Williams hurt his knee was in the 5th game of the season against the Ravens.  I dont remember Williams doing all that great even before the injury against the Ravens although someone with a PFF subscription could correct me if I am wrong. 

You could legitimately chalk that up to lack of chemistry

[007BengalsFan]

(02-21-2023, 11:48 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Yep Volson was just ok at best. There were periods early in the season he was easily as bad or worse than we ever saw with Adeniji.
People tend to give him the benefit of the doubt because he was a 4th rounder.
If he was a Rd 1 or Rd 2 pick, they (likely) would be saying he sucked.

There's potentially a correlation to the fact Jonah Williams had his worst season with Volson next to him.
He was much better when Spain was the LG.


I'm not saying to bring Spain back (although I think he'd be ok depth), but I do think there's opportunity to upgrade LG over Volson.
Getting some new OT (depth at least) is higher priority though, IMO.

As much as I think the LG position with Spain needed upgraded,  Volson played worse than Spain.  The LG position in 2022 with Volson took a step back from the 2021 season with Spain.  LT was worse in 2022 with Jonah.  At RT although Collins struggled at times and didnt live up to his expectations, he did about as well as Reiff in 2021

[Sled21]

Some of you are nothing if not hilarious with your takes. The people bashing Volson are the same people who said over and over again that Carman was a wasted pick and would never see anything but the bench, and now we're talking about him winning the LT position. So go ahead and post all the PFF garbage, and go on and comment on how horrible Volson is. About 2/3rds of the way through the season, Ted Karras and Alex Cappa said they fully expect Volson to become a top 5 guard in the NFL. I think I'll go with their opinion of how he plays and how he's improving.....

On edit: I don't remember the link where I read Cappa and Karras' prediction of him being a top 5 guard, but here is another statement from him. Like I said, I'll go with Karras' assessment,

https://www.bengals.com/news/cordell-volson-emerging-as-future-anchor-on-o-line

Quote:Karras calls Volson "a home-run pick."

"He's a long-time guard. A decade of excellence at the position," Karras predicts. "He still has a lot of work to do. But look at the players he's played and how he's adapted to the scheme and league and it's a home-run pick. He's the type of guy you want to build a team with. It's a testament to the people in the front office that found this guy. He's a big reason we're winning games and he's playing at a really high level of football."

[Frank Booth]

(02-22-2023, 09:49 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Some of you are nothing if not hilarious with your takes. The people bashing Volson are the same people who said over and over again that Carman was a wasted pick and would never see anything but the bench, and now we're talking about him winning the LT position. So go ahead and post all the PFF garbage, and go on and comment on how horrible Volson is. About 2/3rds of the way through the season, Ted Karras and Alex Cappa said they fully expect Volson to become a top 5 guard in the NFL. I think I'll go with their opinion of how he plays and how he's improving.....

On edit: I don't remember the link where I read Cappa and Karras' prediction of him being a top 5 guard, but here is another statement from him. Like I said, I'll go with Karras' assessment,

https://www.bengals.com/news/cordell-volson-emerging-as-future-anchor-on-o-line

WHY would Karras bash his teammate to the media? Of course he’s going to praise him

This is like the fifth time somebody has referenced some kind of coach/player speak as proof of something. Hilarious

Do us a favor, get some awareness

[SunsetBengal]

(02-21-2023, 08:27 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Folks just like to proclaim "hate" because they think any opinion that disagrees with theirs has no merit.

I hope Volston becomes the next great OG in the league, but it's obvious our oline needs upgrading and if you ask me for the weakest link in our 2022 oline starters I'd say it was Cordell Volston. Hell even Hakeen Adeniji outscored him according to PFF.

About as much merit as a microaggression like purposefully misspelling someone's name repeatedly?

[TecmoBengals]

Regarding Volson, I have no disagreement with people trying to make takes against his success based on attempts to analyze the position with numerical ratings but isn't there value in a player having grit, dogged determination, or whatever other intangibles apply to Volson? Maybe he's coachable or meshes with the other OL. Maybe he communicates well and saved Burrow's ass a few times? I have no idea. I'm just spit-balling and making up ideas to suggest why he might have some inherent worth to the coaches and team.

I'd like to think he didn't just start because they had no other players. I'm hopeful the team sees continued growth and potential.

Anyhow, mark me down for pro-Volson unless Duke and Zac decide differently.

[*SHRacerX*]

(02-21-2023, 10:48 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Adeniji and Jonah aren't comparable in my opinion. Jonah is in a (multiple?) tiers ahead of Adeniji. Adeniji is God awful and honestly shouldn't be sniffing the roster next year. That experiment needs to end. 

Adeniji is affordable as the extra OT in unbalanced formations and actuallly did that pretty well.  Jonah is hard to evaluate becaue of the injuries, but he added extra weight in an effort to improve his anchor, which has always been suspect, and he ended up with two significant knee injuries.  I can't see him suddenly taking a next step in his fifth year to become a really good LT.  I would really rather see what Carman can do with an offseason getting all his snaps at LT.  If he can be what Jonah was last year, that is a huge savings and he also rarely gets bullrushed.  

[Frank Booth]

(02-22-2023, 10:09 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: About as much merit as a microaggression like purposefully misspelling someone's name repeatedly?

you actually used the term micro aggression. Dial it back, chief

[Soonerpeace]

(02-22-2023, 10:08 AM)Frank Booth Wrote: WHY would Karras bash his teammate to the media? Of course he’s going to praise him

This is like the fifth time somebody has referenced some kind of coach/player speak as proof of something. Hilarious

Do us a favor, get some awareness

There’s going to be a lot of disappointed people on here because they aren’t looking to upgrade at LG even remotely.