Higgins or Chase…Who’s The Better Reciever

[Murdock2420]

(03-19-2023, 11:26 PM)jason Wrote: That last sentence is odd. When has Burrow not had "flashy" guys? He wasn't all that in 2018. He had the 2 best WRs in college football in 2019. He was pretty good as a rookie with a shell of AJ Green, Tyler Boyd, and a rookie Tee Higgins. He's been really good with 2 flashy guys since. We don't have any precedent of Burrow getting the job done with a Branch and Troy Brown type as his WRs.

Correct, we haven't seen it but do you believe he is elite? If you believe he is on the same tier as even Mahomes, then he has to be able to do it without flashy guys.

I'm going off of what he did when Chase was out 4 games and the offense didn't miss a beat. Or when Higgins would get hurt and the offense continued to perform. Personally, I think Burrow has that same ability as Mahomes and can win without the need of two #1 WRs.

[*bfine32*]

(03-19-2023, 11:27 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I’m down to follow KC’s model. Strong OL, top QB, and at least one truly elite weapon (ours would just be Chase instead of Kelce). Is Zac Taylor the next Andy Reid though?

I hope not. Took that dude 20 years as a HC to win a Superbowl. 

[Murdock2420]

(03-19-2023, 11:27 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I’m down to follow KC’s model. Strong OL, top QB, and at least one truly elite weapon (ours would just be Chase instead of Kelce). Is Zac Taylor the next Andy Reid though?

There's a big problem with that method, a top tier TE money versus a top tier WR money. It isn't the same realm.  

Kelce's cap hit 2024 $15,551,944

Hill's cap hit 2024 $31,073,750

The top WR is always going to make a lot more $$ then the top TE. 

[Murdock2420]

(03-19-2023, 11:20 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Also, what??

Rodgers is anything but a gunslinger. He has the lowest INT% of all time.

I guess I just don't consider a gunslinger guy someone who throws a ton of picks, but a guy who throws a ton of passes and doesn't have the highest completion %.

Look at last season, Rodgers finished between Jacoby Brissett and Tua for completion perct. Incomplete passes on 3rd down are drive killers. The old Andy Dalton special if you will.

Rodgers likes to be the guy, and that dance around hail mary play was certainly a favorite of his, just seems like he was always trying to do too much. Maybe just the perception I have of him

[Nicomo Cosca]

(03-19-2023, 11:32 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I hope not. Took that dude 20 years as a HC to win a Superbowl. 

His QB’s were Donovan McNabb, Kevin Kolb, post-prison Michael Vick, and Alex Smith.

(03-19-2023, 11:33 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: There's a big problem with that method, a top tier TE money versus a top tier WR money. It isn't the same realm.  

Kelce's cap hit 2024 $15,551,944

Hill's cap hit 2024 $31,073,750

The top WR is always going to make a lot more $$ then the top TE. 

Finding a HoF TE like that in the draft is about as likely as recreating Tom Brady’s career. If KC didn’t have Kelce I doubt they would have traded Tyreek.

(03-19-2023, 11:41 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I guess I just don't consider a gunslinger guy someone who throws a ton of picks, but a guy who throws a ton of passes and doesn't have the highest completion %.

Look at last season, Rodgers finished between Jacoby Brissett and Tua for completion perct. Incomplete passes on 3rd down are drive killers. The old Andy Dalton special if you will.

Rodgers likes to be the guy, and that dance around hail mary play was certainly a favorite of his, just seems like he was always trying to do too much. Maybe just the perception I have of him

His weapons were ass. ;)

Seriously, Allen friggin Lazard was his top WR. It’s almost like he was really missing Adams or something…

[*bfine32*]

(03-20-2023, 12:21 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: His QB’s were Donovan McNabb, Kevin Kolb, post-prison Michael Vick, and Alex Smith.

OK?

His replacement won a Superbowl with Nick Foles

[Murdock2420]

(03-20-2023, 12:21 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: His QB’s were Donovan McNabb, Kevin Kolb, post-prison Michael Vick, and Alex Smith.


Finding a HoF TE like that in the draft is about as likely as recreating Tom Brady’s career. If KC didn’t have Kelce I doubt they would have traded Tyreek.


His weapons were ass.

Seriously, Allen friggin Lazard was his top WR. It’s almost like he was really missing Adams or something…

Maybe he was, but another great example of no matter how elite the WR is, no title.

Adams, Calvin Johnson, Randy Moss, all certainly the elite top WR in the league for their career. 0 titles among them.

It's almost like there's a long standing trend on this topic..... 


As for a HoF TE. Again, is Gronk that great or did Brady elevate him like he elevated everyone else? Not saying Gronk wasn't special and very good, but playing with Brady had to make him better.

If Burrow is elite, top of the food chain one of the best 2 or 3 QBs in the league. He should be able to elevate the play of guys around him. So get him a guy like T.J. Hockenson who was available for trade, or take a TE early in the draft and let that dynamic build. 


Paying a WR to be the highest paid one in the league like Chase is going to demand (he had a quote about his astrological sign being dollar signs) is not how to win in the NFL. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(03-20-2023, 12:38 AM)bfine32 Wrote: OK?

His replacement won a Superbowl with Nick Foles

Pederson did not replace him. Chip Kelly and Pat Shurmur were both in between.

And just like the Tom Brady example above, winning a Super Bowl with a QB like Foles, or Flacco, or Brad Johnson, etc are rare exceptions, not the norm.

[*bfine32*]

(03-20-2023, 12:58 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Pederson did not replace him. Chip Kelly and Pat Shurmur were both in between.

And just like the Tom Brady example above, winning a Super Bowl with a QB like Foles, or Flacco, or Brad Johnson, etc are rare exceptions, not the norm.

None of that changes the fact it took Andy Reid 20 years as a HC to win a Superbowl. I'd prefer Zac win one before that, so I hope he's not the next Andy Reid. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(03-19-2023, 11:27 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I’m down to follow KC’s model. Strong OL, top QB, and at least one truly elite weapon (ours would just be Chase instead of Kelce). Is Zac Taylor the next Andy Reid though?

When you look at Brady and Mahomes, Burrow has what it takes on his own, as a QB, like they did. The one thing they had, which he doesn't, is the line to protect him in the post season. 

I haven't looked at Brady's SB losses but Mahomes loss was credited to a bad line. 

Get the QB, get the line, get the rings. Bengals have one check mark there.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(03-20-2023, 12:56 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Maybe he was, but another great example of no matter how elite the WR is, no title.

Adams, Calvin Johnson, Randy Moss, all certainly the elite top WR in the league for their career. 0 titles among them.

It's almost like there's a long standing trend on this topic..... 


As for a HoF TE. Again, is Gronk that great or did Brady elevate him like he elevated everyone else? Not saying Gronk wasn't special and very good, but playing with Brady had to make him better.

If Burrow is elite, top of the food chain one of the best 2 or 3 QBs in the league. He should be able to elevate the play of guys around him. So get him a guy like T.J. Hockenson who was available for trade, or take a TE early in the draft and let that dynamic build. 


Paying a WR to be the highest paid one in the league like Chase is going to demand (he had a quote about his astrological sign being dollar signs) is not how to win in the NFL. 

The Bengals are 100% re-signing Ja’Marr Chase, guy. Might as well just embrace it.

[*rfaulk34*]

(03-19-2023, 11:33 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: There's a big problem with that method, a top tier TE money versus a top tier WR money. It isn't the same realm.  

Kelce's cap hit 2024 $15,551,944

Hill's cap hit 2024 $31,073,750

The top WR is always going to make a lot more $$ then the top TE. 

A lot less elite TEs than WRs though. 

[*Go Cards*]

Tee is a very good NFL receiver and that is something special in its own right.

But now that we know Higgins is that close to Chase then even more reason to trade one of them.

Just think of the bevy of draft picks the Bengals will receive in trade for Tee ?

Because certain Chase would bring a lot in trade, so Higgins has to as well per GM's and coaches could never miss how parallel the two are in talent.

Really don't care which is traded, yet think Burrow does if forced to choose between the 2. So imo one needs to be moved so the Bengals can still field a team besides Joe, Chase, and Tee in the near future.

[TecmoBengals]

(03-20-2023, 01:12 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: The Bengals are 100% re-signing Ja’Marr Chase, guy. Might as well just embrace it.

Agreed. Burrow to Chase is a thing for the next 5+ years. It will be interesting to see how things unfold with Tee. I hate to lose him but understand if they don't commit to him since Chase is the WR getting the big deal.

[TKUHL]

That’s a tougher question than some may think. I will just say they compliment each other as well as anyone. What one lacks in the other excels. I think it’s the deadliest tandem in the league and hope it stays that way for years to come.

Now add a stud TE and dynamic RB behind a Oline that should be much improved…..look out. Stay healthy and we will be lifting the Lombardi multiple times.

[jfkbengals]

(03-20-2023, 07:17 PM)TKUHL Wrote: That’s a tougher question than some may think. I will just say they compliment each other as well as anyone. What one lacks in the other excels. I think it’s the deadliest tandem in the league and hope it stays that way for years to come.

Now add a stud TE and dynamic RB behind a Oline that should be much improved…..look out. Stay healthy and we will be lifting the Lombardi multiple times.

Well said.  To add to your thought, I don't know that you can say one is better than the other without specifying "at this, that, or the other".  Better top end?  Chase.  Better catch radius?  Tee. etc, etc.  Regardless, they are both dynamic players that are automatically a starter for any of the 32 NFL teams.

[impactplaya]

Alot of great Super Bowl winning teams in the
Past have had some dangerous tandems
At WR. Let's ponder

Swann Stallworth
Taylor Rice
Harrison Wayne
Branch Bilentikoff
Evans Gronk
Harper Irvin
Holt Bruce

Letting Higgins walk will just create a revolving door
At the other WR spot.
Higgins and Chase are are like peanut butter and jelly
And Burrow is the Wonder Bread

[*Synric*]

I still think they should have traded back for Christian Darrisaw.  

[Nicomo Cosca]

(03-20-2023, 11:52 PM)Synric Wrote: I still think they should have traded back for Christian Darrisaw.  

Or traded back up.

[Shake n Blake]

(03-18-2023, 11:10 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Philly doesn’t make that Super Bowl this season without adding AJ Brown. I’m of the mindset that you give your QB as many weapons as possible, no matter how good he is. Look at Rodgers in GB. I think most would agree only one trip to the Super Bowl was a massive underachievement for a QB of his caliber. Especially in the NFC where they didn’t even have to get through Brady and the Pats all those years. They did him a massive disservice by never surrounding him with enough weapons.

Now ofc you can’t let paying the skill positions stop you from addressing other areas like the trenches. That’s the balancing act, and why GM’s (or Duke in our case) get paid the big bucks. It’s not an easy job.

We're all of that mind set, but you also have to be realistic. We could be talking almost somewhere over $90 million on only 3 players, all involved in the passing game. That's only one aspect of a football team. Do we pay all 3 and watch the o-line suffer? The d-line? Who takes the hit? Who do we let walk to maintain that trio?

Or...do you trade Higgins or let him walk and take the compensatory pick while trying to replace Higgins with another draft pick at WR on a cheap rookie deal? Rodgers isn't the only example. Brady made Super Bowls with pretty weak WR corps. Eli Manning had some decent guys, but it wasn't Chase/Higgins. Who were the Eagles' WR's when they won? Wasn't Juju Mahomes' top WR last year?

Sure, some of those guys had great TE's, but Burrow will always have Chase.