Intermediate step to beginning of life uncovered

[*rfaulk34*]

(06-18-2015, 01:28 PM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: Hold the phone there Ben...It's certainly not that I am not listening....It's that I completely disagree with you.  These are long debated concepts that smarter men than you and I have discussed.  I highly doubt that it comes down to one person or another is or isn't listening.  

No listening, not understanding, not willing to understand. One or more of the three.

[*rfaulk34*]

(06-18-2015, 01:31 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Well if I did not exist I couldn't have determined it.   That leaves only God.

I don't disagree with this but i don't see how it applies to what we're discussing. If you didn't exist, you can't determine a future. But everyone else that is alive still can. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(06-18-2015, 03:55 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: God's knowledge of which numbers will be drawn is based upon once they are drawn. He didn't affect which numbers were drawn. He simply knows the numbers. Knowing the numbers doesn't affect which numbers are drawn. But any other combination of numbers are impossible because his foreknowledge is based upon what will happen/happened not because of his knowledge of what will happen. His knowledge of "x" is because "x" happened. His knowledge of your act is secondary to your act. If your act is"y" his knowledge of your act is "y". If your act is "z" his knowledge of your act is "z".

If His knowledge is "z" your act cannot be "x".  Your act can only be "z" because once you do "z" he knows it.

Conclusions (Heaven/Hell) are based upon data (your actions.) If the data doesn't support the conclusion then the concludion is wrong. God doesn't make wrong conclusions. If his conclusion is I will go to Hell then his conclusion is based upon what he knows I did in the future after I did it. Therefore, I can't do anything to change God's conclusion because that would prove God wrong.

I don't like using numbers in the comparison because numbers(inanimate object) can't choose to be drawn or not. But i'm still not disagreeing with what you're saying; what God knows can't be changed. It's still just POV to me.

He knows. But you chose.

[*rfaulk34*]

(06-18-2015, 05:38 PM)Beaker Wrote: Its not my argument. Its plain logic. And the only flaw is your attempt to repeatedly avoid the obvious.

It's not plain logic. It's your logic.

Which is flawed.

[*rfaulk34*]

(06-18-2015, 05:40 PM)Beaker Wrote: His decisions didnt matter. Because god already knew the decisions he would make BEFORE even creating him. If he didnt, then god isnt really all knowing.

It doesn't MATTER that He knew. It matters that He didn't cause it.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(06-18-2015, 08:56 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I don't like using numbers in the comparison because numbers(inanimate object) can't choose to be drawn or not. But i'm still not disagreeing with what you're saying; what God knows can't be changed. It's still just POV to me.

He knows. But you chose.

I understand your reluctance to use numbers, but it is a parable.

The lottery ticket represents Heaven or Hell. The individual numbers all represent choices. Make the right combination of choices and you win the lottery (Heaven). Make the wrong choices and you lose (Hell).

You pick the numbers. God tells you if you have a winning ticket.

I think we agree up to this point.

I think where we can't have a meeting of the minds is . . . God knows if you win or lose before you pick your first number because he has already seen your ticket.

[*rfaulk34*]

(06-18-2015, 09:54 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I understand your reluctance to use numbers, but it is a parable.  

The lottery ticket represents Heaven or Hell. The individual numbers all represent choices. Make the right combination of choices and you win the lottery (Heaven). Make the wrong choices and you lose (Hell).

You pick the numbers. God tells you if you have a winning ticket.

I think we agree up to this point.

I think where we can't have a meeting of the minds is . . . God knows if you win or lose before you pick your first number because he has already seen your ticket.

The thing is though, God has already given everyone the winning numbers. It's up to each person whether or not they want to play and win. 

Regarding the last line, i don't think we disagree there. I think there's a difference of opinion somewhere else. 

[SteelCitySouth]

(06-18-2015, 08:34 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: No listening, not understanding, not willing to understand. One or more of the three.

Or it could just be the fact that it is beyond your comprehension that one can understand your point yet, do to the debatable nature of the topic, simply don't agree with your position, and, pay real close attention to this part, agree more with the other debatable position.

[*PhilHos*]

(06-18-2015, 09:02 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: It doesn't MATTER that He knew. It matters that He didn't cause it.

I am amazed that there are so many intelligent people that just don't seem to be able to grasp that knowing something does not equal doing something.

[*rfaulk34*]

(06-19-2015, 10:01 AM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: Or it could just be the fact that it is beyond your comprehension that one can understand your point yet, do to the debatable nature of the topic, simply don't agree with your position, and, pay real close attention to this part, agree more with the other debatable position.

What do i look like, Coltsfan or something?

[SteelCitySouth]

(06-19-2015, 11:54 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: What do i look like, Coltsfan or something?

yes

[*rfaulk34*]

(06-19-2015, 11:37 AM)PhilHos Wrote: I am amazed that there are so many intelligent people that just don't seem to be able to grasp that knowing something does not equal doing something.

Post #313.

[*rfaulk34*]

(06-19-2015, 11:56 AM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: yes

OH! I thought you were joking that i might not be able to understand a simple concept like that. 

Hold on a sec while i wipe this drool off my keyboard...

[Benton]

(06-18-2015, 07:29 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: It is physical representation of time. Does the future loop back upon itself to join the past in the present on a linear timeline?  No. Time only advances forward in a linear timeline. Damn't now I have to review linear time cosmology. Mother f'er!  

And that's why I'm saying you can't look at it in the linear model.

(06-18-2015, 07:34 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: So at the same moment of Creation, He knew the results oh all your decisions, and ultimately whether you would go to Heaven or Hell in the same moment.

Yes. He knew me, all my decisions; He knew you and all yours; He knew Hitler and all his; he knew we'd build an atom bomb, go to the moon, invent the stick. He knew all of it, and threw the mechanisms for it, into gear at the same time.

I'm calling that linear point in time... the Big Bang. But don't tell anyone. It's a working title.

[*rfaulk34*]

(06-18-2015, 11:21 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: One of their rationalizations is if the non believers are allowed to go to Heaven then what incentive is there to become saved. Also, God will reveal Himself to you if you believe even if you aren't aware of Jesus. I would suggest you read the articles because they quote the verses to support their belief because I don't want to take a position where it seems like I am proving/defending their belief.

I googled it but i'm getting results from different sites. Who exactly am i looking for?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(06-19-2015, 10:14 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I googled it but i'm getting results from different sites. Who exactly am i looking for?

In general. Read several to get a general feel for their POV.

[*rfaulk34*]

(06-19-2015, 11:33 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: In general. Read several to get a general feel for their POV.

A dude could get a pretty sizable headache reading all the different opinions of other people interpretations of scripture. 

Where's the ibuprofen? 

On another note...do you think your username would make for a good pregame speech when the Bengals play their next playoff game?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(06-20-2015, 12:56 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: A dude could get a pretty sizable headache reading all the different opinions of other people interpretations of scripture. 

Where's the ibuprofen? 

OMG. . . imagine how I feel? That word doesn't mean that. That interpretation is too literal. The Earth is 6000 years old. No it's not.

Quote:On another note...do you think your username would make for a good pregame speech when the Bengals play their next playoff game?

Absolutely not. Shakespeare would be Marv Levy's style

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n_2G9C0MwDA

I'd go with Sean Connery . . . warning, foul language

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qD5GtohtRYU