Seattle and the minimum wage increase

[*Nately120*]

(07-20-2015, 08:54 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Really?  Because in SF, where the minimum wage is only going up in steps to $15, over the next couple years, Chipotle has already raised their prices by 10.5%

http://www.youngcons.com/san-francisco-raises-minimum-wage-14-guess-how-chipotle-responded/

I would think a place that chargers over $6 for 13 cents worth of rice and beans would be able to afford to pay it's workers $15 an hour.

[Benton]

(07-21-2015, 10:34 AM)Beaker Wrote: Exactly. You start out at minimum wage and work your way up. You start a family after you have climbed the ladder a bit...if you are smart.

Agreed. But, there are more workers than jobs and employers can keep wages low in a lot of fields because of the competition.  Which leads to not much ladder climbing. Even in higher paying jobs, phasing out pensions, healthcare costs and just general uncertainty keep people in the workplace longer, meaning those higher jobs to climb to are fewer. 

[GMDino]

(07-21-2015, 10:34 AM)Beaker Wrote: Exactly. You start out at minimum wage and work your way up. You start a family after you have climbed the ladder a bit...if you are smart.

Then lose your job to "downsizing" or you're one of the older employees who "makes too much".

And the people who are hiring?  They pay minimum wage with no benefits.

So you have to support your family with two (or three) jobs until you die.

Living the American dream....

[*Nately120*]

(07-21-2015, 10:42 AM)GMDino Wrote: Then lose your job to "downsizing" or you're one of the older employees who "makes too much".

And the people who are hiring?  They pay minimum wage with no benefits.

So you have to support your family with two (or three) jobs until you die.

Living the American dream....

If there is one (just one?) contradiction I hear from the right wing it's that minimum wage jobs shouldn't be relied upon long-term and that people should feel incentive to work their way up the ladder.  But then again they also say there can only be so many chiefs and many indians and everyone wants to be a chief (which is also bad).

[*michaelsean*]

(07-20-2015, 10:46 PM)GMDino Wrote: Ha!  That's just as bad! 

I can't decide which is worse.  A cheapskate trying to justify their cheapness, or someone who believes they are helping by not giving them money.

[Belsnickel]

I am against a federal minimum wage because, well, CoL is different everywhere. That being said, the federal minimum wage was introduced at $0.25 an hour, or a little over $4 an hour by today's money. The federal minimum wage is currently about in the middle of the two extremes adjusted for inflation of $4 and about $11. I'm okay with that.

All of that being said, if states and/or localities want to do something different, all the blessings upon them. But the federal minimum wage should not be increased. It honestly should be lower or not exist at all and let the states and locals do their own thing with it.

[BmorePat87]

So because it costs more to eat somewhere, you shouldn't tip?

That's dumb. I won't disagree that a $15 minimum wage will likely raise prices. I tip even when I eat at a place that's pricey. I don't go "this already costs too much". You made the choice to eat out. If the service is good, tip.

[*bfine32*]

A dynamic folks do not look at when talking about Minimum wage increases is the folks that do not work in commericial industries (city employees, ect...).

If you work in a commercial industry your company can offset the added cost of employement by raising the cost of their service. If the employement cost is raised for non-commercial employees; guess where the money is going to come from.

[*PhilHos*]

(07-21-2015, 10:42 AM)GMDino Wrote: So you have to support your family with two (or three) jobs until you die.

If you've not climbed the employment ladder by the time you die, that's your fault, IMO.

My first job was working at McDonald's for $3.15 an hour (minimum wage). I worked at McDonald's off and on for 3 more years. That was the last time I worked a minimum wage job. I went to college (but didn't graduate) and I ended up getting a degree from a business school (twice; 2 degrees from 2 different schools). And now I make about $5 / hour more than CT's minimum wage. And, I'm in a job that you don't go in for the money (people in my position typically don't make much but we know this going in).

While I pride myself on my intelligence (shut up, SCS), how I reached where I'm at didn't really take any special circumstances or special upbringing or skin color or anything like that. All it took was the desire and will to go out and get a better job. It may and most likely will take some time, but unless you WANT to work minimum wage and/or 3 jobs until you die, that's a small price to pay.

[Rotobeast]

(07-20-2015, 11:59 PM)Benton Wrote: I don't know the cost of living there, so a lot of it depends on that. $15 in western Kentucky isn't a bad wage. You can get a decent house, car and raise a kid. I'm guessing it doesnt go that far in Seattle.

But, overall, if the hourly wage offsets the tip, then I don't have a problem with people tipping. I've always had an issue that people think it's expected. If I get bad service, I tip less or not at all. If I get good service (or she's hot) I tip more. If the waitress is making $15 an hour, I'm probably not tipping much at all. And if the service is bad or the food is bad, I'll let somebody know instead of just not leaving a tip and hoping it's better next time.

That said, we generally grossly underpay our service industry workers. It's not so much about them not having the skills or education, it's about the ability to put up with the crap or the pressure. As an employer, my employees making a good impression and being willing to take some hot headed customers means a lot.

This....
I believe the minimum wage should be directly tied to the cost of living in the area.
You can live very well on $15/hr in my area, but it would still be difficult in DC, or the likes.

Does anyone think that the hotness of waitresses of will decline, if tipping dwindles ?

[Benton]

(07-21-2015, 01:16 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: So because it costs more to eat somewhere, you shouldn't tip?

That's dumb. I won't disagree that a $15 minimum wage will likely raise prices. I tip even when I eat at a place that's pricey. I don't go "this already costs too much". You made the choice to eat out. If the service is good, tip.

To me, it's not so much the cost more as the cost less.

If I'm going somewhere that I'm expecting $50-$75 per plate, I'm expecting the service to be at a high level and I'm expecting to pay a large tip for that.

If I'm going to Applebee's and paying $25 for oversalted, overcooked ribs and flat beer I get once every half hour, then I'm not going to tip as much. The server may be great, but that's not really what I'm going for. I'm not expecting as much.

[Rotobeast]

(07-21-2015, 01:49 PM)Benton Wrote: To me, it's not so much the cost more as the cost less.

If I'm going somewhere that I'm expecting $50-$75 per plate, I'm expecting the service to be at a high level and I'm expecting to pay a large tip for that.

If I'm going to Applebee's and paying $25 for oversalted, overcooked ribs and flat beer I get once every half hour, then I'm not going to tip as much. The server may be great, but that's not really what I'm going for. I'm not expecting as much.

Wouldn't that technically be reflected by using the percentage system of tipping ?

[Benton]

(07-21-2015, 01:54 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: Wouldn't that technically be reflected by using the percentage system of tipping ?

With me, it tends not to.

Usually, if it's a nice place with good service and really good food, I'll tip 20% or so.

If it's Applebee's, I'll tip 10% or so.

[GMDino]

(07-21-2015, 01:31 PM)PhilHos Wrote: If you've not climbed the employment ladder by the time you die, that's your fault, IMO.

My first job was working at McDonald's for $3.15 an hour (minimum wage). I worked at McDonald's off and on for 3 more years. That was the last time I worked a minimum wage job. I went to college (but didn't graduate) and I ended up getting a degree from a business school (twice; 2 degrees from 2 different schools). And now I make about $5 / hour more than CT's minimum wage. And, I'm in a job that you don't go in for the money (people in my position typically don't make much but we know this going in).

While I pride myself on my intelligence (shut up, SCS), how I reached where I'm at didn't really take any special circumstances or special upbringing or skin color or anything like that. All it took was the desire and will to go out and get a better job. It may and most likely will take some time, but unless you WANT to work minimum wage and/or 3 jobs until you die, that's a small price to pay.

I followed much the same path...including three years at McDonalds.  A degree that allowed me to get a job within my studies and then gradually moving out of that business to where I am now over 7-8 years.

And now I've been at the same job for 18 years and make a decent salary plus commission.  But over the last few years new ownership has changed the commission and I'm making less than I was 5-6 years ago.  I'm not doing anything different.  Job responsibilities have increased but pay is lower. And if I lost my job tomorrow?  Walmart I guess?  Just to get by?  

You don't just start over somewhere at the same place you left off.  And at 45 can I make it back up before I die?  Or will I be let go at 60 for making too much when then can hire someone younger for a lot less.  Too many companies don't care about your experience as much as they care about how little they can get away with paying you in my experience.

[StLucieBengal]

Increased federal min wage is nothing more than a union payoff since most of those contracts are tied to thw min wage.    Matt is correct .... Federal min wage should be abolished. Let the state's handle that issue.


The bigger problem facing is the Mincome debate.    Soon enough we will be told that everyone deserves to make 50k.

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

I've worked in the restaurant industry since I was 14yo (off and on over the yrs either as a primary or secondary source of income.)  It's pretty simple guys, and to me it doesn't make a difference if it's here in Cincy or NYC, we all know when and where we are supposed to tip.  Standard is 15%-20% (I usually leave about 25%) and it doesn't matter if it's applebees, Friches, or Carlo and Johnny.  Don't want to tip? then go somewhere you're not expected to.  And don't go to a high end restaurant trying to be Mr. bigshot and screw the server on the tip because you got sticker shock when the bill came.

I've never been to Seattle, so I don't know what cost of living there is like.  However I do know some fellow servers that have moved to LA or NYC, and while yes they are paid more per hour there compared to here the cost of living there is way more than here.  They need those tips.  And don't be the D-bag looking for an excuse not to tip.  I have seen ladies seek out the waiter to find out how much their date tipped, because many ladies don't want to be with someone that is rude to the help, so keep that in mind fella's

[*michaelsean*]

I tip well for bad service if I think the person is trying their best. I've only had a couple of jerks in my life and those are the only I never tipped.

[Benton]

(07-21-2015, 02:41 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Increased federal min wage is nothing more than a union payoff since most of those contracts are tied to thw min wage.    Matt is correct .... Federal min wage should be abolished.   Let the state's handle that issue.  


The bigger problem facing is the Mincome debate.    Soon enough we will be told that everyone deserves to make 50k.

Er, sorta, but backwards.

For a long time unions helped indirectly determine a basic pay rate for an area. That's why areas that have more union workers typically have higher incomes. If you live in an area with lots of union manufacturing jobs, you probably have an overall higher payscale for everything from car salesmen to gas station employees. So unions effect the average wage in places, but they don't go up in wages just because the minimum wage goes up. Although, a minimum wage hike will probably be part of any labor negotiation for a pay increase.

That's been part of the reason wages have fallen off since the 80s and the weakening of unions. Cost of living continues to rise, but there are fewer unions to offset that increase by negotiating pay increases on behalf of larger groups.

But I agree with you and Matt, no federal minimum wage. Although I would add that there should be a requirement states have some minimum wage statute.

[StLucieBengal]

(07-21-2015, 03:06 PM)Benton Wrote: Er, sorta, but backwards.

For a long time unions helped indirectly determine a basic pay rate for an area. That's why areas that have more union workers typically have higher incomes. If you live in an area with lots of union manufacturing jobs, you probably have an overall higher payscale for everything from car salesmen to gas station employees. So unions effect the average wage in places, but they don't go up in wages just because the minimum wage goes up. Although, a minimum wage hike will probably be part of any labor negotiation for a pay increase.

That's been part of the reason wages have fallen off since the 80s and the weakening of unions. Cost of living continues to rise, but there are fewer unions to offset that increase by negotiating pay increases on behalf of larger groups.

But I agree with you and Matt, no federal minimum wage. Although I would add that there should be a requirement states have some minimum wage statute.

I was referring to this: http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/01/12/just-why-are-the-unions-supporting-a-rise-in-the-minimum-wage/

Quote:Organized labor’s instantaneous support for President Obama’s recent proposal to hike the minimum wage doesn’t make much sense at first glance. The average private-sector union member—at least one who still has a job—earns $22 an hour according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. That’s a far cry from the current $7.25 per hour federal minimum wage, or the $9 per hour the president has proposed. Altruistic solidarity with lower-paid workers isn’t the reason for organized labor’s cheerleading, either.

The real reason is that some unions and their members directly benefit from minimum wage increases—even when nary a union member actually makes the minimum wage.

The Center for Union Facts analyzed collective-bargaining agreements obtained from the Department of Labor’s Office of Labor-Management Standards. The data indicate that a number of unions in the service, retail and hospitality industries peg their base-line wages to the minimum wage.

[GMDino]

(07-21-2015, 03:05 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I tip well for bad service if I think the person is trying their best.  I've only had a couple of jerks in my life and those are the only I never tipped.

Only time I didn't tip was simply because I forgot!  Took my then gf to dinner and it turned out I knew the waitress' brother and we talked a lot and when I left it simply slipped my mind until the next day!

No, I didn't go back.  I was embarrassed.  That's probably very wrong.