08-19-2022, 01:15 PM
Is it still 1st amendment ?
And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
Mass Shooting at San Antonio Elementary School
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08-19-2022, 01:15 PM
Is it still 1st amendment ?
And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
08-19-2022, 01:34 PM
(08-19-2022, 01:15 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: Is it still 1st amendment ? I wouldn't recommend going so "1st amendment" with a last name like this, personally.
08-19-2022, 08:34 PM
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
08-19-2022, 10:43 PM
(08-19-2022, 01:15 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: Is it still 1st amendment ?From what I understand for it to be a violation of the 1st amendment, it must be a specific threat towards a specific person or group of people. This is too broad Fueled by the pursuit of greatness.
08-20-2022, 12:00 AM
(08-19-2022, 10:43 PM)pally Wrote: From what I understand for it to be a violation of the 1st amendment, it must be a specific threat towards a specific person or group of people. This is too broad What if he said if im elected to the school board you have my permission to enter the school and shoot students?
08-20-2022, 04:41 AM
(08-19-2022, 08:34 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: In short, yes. Though I'm more American in respect to freedom of speech than most Europeans are, this imho goes too far. This is a direct threat, after all, and a call to resist the government of the United States by the ultimate means. At the very least his person should be excluded from running for office and I'm glad they would be in my country.
08-20-2022, 12:52 PM
(08-20-2022, 12:00 AM)Nately120 Wrote: What if he said if im elected to the school board you have my permission to enter the school and shoot students? I would say yes it is a threat...I have no idea what a court would decide on this one Fueled by the pursuit of greatness.
08-20-2022, 01:40 PM
(08-20-2022, 12:52 PM)pally Wrote: I would say yes it is a threat...I have no idea what a court would decide on this one It's the same in theory as what he said, but yeah I feel like the court of public opinion would demand the 1st take a backseat. Or maybe not.
08-21-2022, 02:35 PM
(08-20-2022, 04:41 AM)hollodero Wrote: Though I'm more American in respect to freedom of speech than most Europeans are, this imho goes too far. This is a direct threat, after all, and a call to resist the government of the United States by the ultimate means. I wouldn't call this a call to do anything. He said if he is elected, Floridians will be permitted to perform an act. Also, if you think he is being serious about Floridians acting out in this manner, you've missed the point entirely.
08-22-2022, 09:56 PM
(08-20-2022, 12:52 PM)pally Wrote: I would say yes it is a threat...I have no idea what a court would decide on this one If I recall these things correctly it has to be a statement that can be acted on immediately (or very quickly) to be wrong/illegal. (I'm not a lawyer, but I did see one on tv.) But twitter banned him so that's good. I didn't see DeSantis or any Florida GOP condemn his statement/him, but I admit I might have missed it after the ban took place. Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
01-19-2024, 11:40 AM
Update:
https://apnews.com/article/uvalde-school-shooting-justice-department-report-police-16b59efa5c5015d685d917c3f0f26256 Quote:[color=var(--headlineColor)]The police response to the Uvalde shooting was riddled with failures, a new DOJ report says[/color] Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
01-19-2024, 12:29 PM
So essentially what I said at the time. Command paralysis coupled with the unwillingness of on the scene officers to jeopardize their career by ignoring orders. If shots are being fired then you enter the scene, that's SOP. This also highlights what a cluster F things become when multiple agencies respond to the same incident. Horrifying failure by admin on this one. I will add that the current climate does not help in these instances. When officers, especially at command level, become more concerned with the potential public response after the incident than actually dealing with the incident at hand you get these kind of cascading failures. This is no way excuses the actions of Uvalde PD, but it goes a long way towards explaining them.
01-19-2024, 04:49 PM
(01-19-2024, 12:29 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: So essentially what I said at the time. Command paralysis coupled with the unwillingness of on the scene officers to jeopardize their career by ignoring orders. If shots are being fired then you enter the scene, that's SOP. This also highlights what a cluster F things become when multiple agencies respond to the same incident. Horrifying failure by admin on this one. I will add that the current climate does not help in these instances. When officers, especially at command level, become more concerned with the potential public response after the incident than actually dealing with the incident at hand you get these kind of cascading failures. This is no way excuses the actions of Uvalde PD, but it goes a long way towards explaining them. What's to worry about? Just let it play out and within 48 hours people will be back to complaining about litter boxes and taxpayer funded sex dungeons for elementary school students. Schools are weird. I live in a very red part of PA and at the latest school board meeting the main talking point of one of the board members was that the school needs to teach American history and make sure it is taught in English. Apparently a bunch of redneck farm kids are supposedly learning American history in Spanish here? Hell if I know.
01-19-2024, 08:09 PM
(01-19-2024, 04:49 PM)Nately120 Wrote: What's to worry about? Just let it play out and within 48 hours people will be back to complaining about litter boxes and taxpayer funded sex dungeons for elementary school students. Your livelihood for starters. Fear of making a decision because it might be wrong and cost you your job is an epidemic in law enforcement right now. I can't tell you how many times I've asked for a decision on a matter only to get a "I'll get back to you" that never comes until time constraints force me to make a decision. I won't even get in to the fear of potential criminal charges, because that would get the usual suspects in a tizzy. Quote:Schools are weird. I live in a very red part of PA and at the latest school board meeting the main talking point of one of the board members was that the school needs to teach American history and make sure it is taught in English. Apparently a bunch of redneck farm kids are supposedly learning American history in Spanish here? Hell if I know. People tend to be touchy when their children are involved. It certainly doesn't always coincide with common sense.
01-19-2024, 08:16 PM
(01-19-2024, 08:09 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Your livelihood for starters. Fear of making a decision because it might be wrong and cost you your job is an epidemic in law enforcement right now. I can't tell you how many times I've asked for a decision on a matter only to get a "I'll get back to you" that never comes until time constraints force me to make a decision. I won't even get in to the fear of potential criminal charges, because that would get the usual suspects in a tizzy. There goes the last good union.
01-19-2024, 08:19 PM
(01-19-2024, 04:49 PM)Nately120 Wrote: What's to worry about? Just let it play out and within 48 hours people will be back to complaining about litter boxes and taxpayer funded sex dungeons for elementary school students. More worrisome is that they were trained properly and didn't follow it due to fear or stupidity. Or both. Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
01-19-2024, 10:20 PM
(01-19-2024, 08:19 PM)GMDino Wrote: More worrisome is that they were trained properly and didn't follow it due to fear or stupidity. Or neither, as has already been explained. When you're ordered not to go in and you choose to go in anyways you're almost certain to lose your job, even if things go well.. If they don't go well, you'll lose your job, potentially be charged criminally, and you'll also potentially be civilly liable as you acted outside of policy (depending on your jurisdiction). It's a lose/lose for the line officers, who iirc wanted to go in but were ordered to stand down by admin. If you really want to play your cop hating game direct your vitriol at the people making decisions instead. Or you could continue to look clueless and vindictive.
01-20-2024, 10:15 AM
(01-19-2024, 10:20 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Or neither, as has already been explained. When you're ordered not to go in and you choose to go in anyways you're almost certain to lose your job, even if things go well.. If they don't go well, you'll lose your job, potentially be charged criminally, and you'll also potentially be civilly liable as you acted outside of policy (depending on your jurisdiction). It's a lose/lose for the line officers, who iirc wanted to go in but were ordered to stand down by admin. [/quote] So fear from the line officers of losing their jobs. Stupidity from the people making the decisions. One internet point for me! (01-19-2024, 10:20 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: f you really want to play your cop hating game direct your vitriol at the people making decisions instead. Or you could continue to look clueless and vindictive. And one more personal insult from you. Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
01-20-2024, 12:06 PM
Quote:So fear from the line officers of losing their jobs. Or being charged criminally, or civilly. For some reason you ignored that point, I wonder why? Have you ever been in a situation where you had to make a potentially life or death decision that could drastically affect your entire life? I'm going to go out on a limb and guess, no. Being an armchair QB is easy, as you prove here on a daily basis. Quote:Stupidity from the people making the decisions. Actually, no. Anyone with an iota of reading comprehension would see the exact opposite. Quote:And one more personal insult from you. Being a professional victim must be exhausting.
01-20-2024, 12:21 PM
(01-20-2024, 12:06 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Or being charged criminally, or civilly. For some reason you ignored that point, I wonder why? Have you ever been in a situation where you had to make a potentially life or death decision that could drastically affect your entire life? I'm going to go out on a limb and guess, no. Being an armchair QB is easy, as you prove here on a daily basis. So fear. Doesn't matter if you want to add more reasons to be afraid to do what they were taught. It was fear. And stupidity from the people above them. I've made some tough decisions in my life. At least three that could have drastically affected me and the people I love. But thank you for again thinking you know more about me than I do. (01-20-2024, 12:06 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Being a professional victim must be exhausting. I wish we were still allowed to put quotes in our signatures. Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self. |
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